OpenGeofiction

Changes in Vinnmark

Posted by adminero_us on 10 July 2017 in English (English)

Hello, fellow mappers.

I'm writing this to warn you that I've got new plans for Vinnmark.

First of all, I'm creating a big bay just like Lake IJsselmeer in the Netherlands, which will include an island in it.

I'm also changing the frontiers as I don't like how Vinnmark looks on the map, so I'll cut off some parts of it and keep them as 'unclaimed territories' so other neighbouring countries can claim them as part of their territory or either someone wants to make them his own country.

Lake Laika is going to be swollen by the sea so that the future city of Odense (which will be similar to Rotterdam in its structure) will be connected to the sea.

Comment from admin on 10 July 2017 at 15:02

Sorry, but that's not going to happen. The general course of the coastline in this region has been discussed at length, and cannot be changed unilaterally.

http://opengeofiction.net/user/adminero_us/diary/925
http://api.opengeofiction.net/user/ADB52/diary/1249

The frontier changes will probably be OK, though. Giving up parts of your territory is always allowed, but keep in mind that it will be most likely a non-reversible action.

Thilo

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Comment from bhj867 on 10 July 2017 at 16:32

As someone who has done a lot of work in Vinnmark. I knew the risk when editing in a blue (albeit unofficially) territory. But I would like to know if you still own said territory after being inactive for a year. Also after being inactive for a year, there have been lengthy discusions, edits, etc a out vinnmark since you stopped editing. I find it extremely disrespectful to just step in and make unilateral changes at this point without AT LEAST a discussion. This is my opinion and it is probably unpopular, but you made it a blue terrirory then vanished completely for a year. If you are to give up parts of your territory i say at least keep the western half and the eastern coast make an officially blue territory so you dont go destroying everyones edits.

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Comment from bhj867 on 10 July 2017 at 16:36

Btw if I were to go inactive for a year on Pretany (which means I gave up or died). Admin, please take my territory and turn it blue and if I were to return, give me only a small chunk back

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Comment from joschi81 on 10 July 2017 at 19:12

Please, adminero_us, leave the general outline of Vinnmark as it is. It is wonderful like that. Other people have worked in Vinnmark (e.g. bhj867 in the north, me in the south) and it has already seen a quite interesting development! Also, please don't cut off parts of the territory. It is allowed, as Thilo says, but as there are several people willing to contribute and already did so in the border regions as well, it is not a good idea, IMHO.

If you want more help in developing the map, please let me know. I'm currently active in the south of Garlis, but I'd be glad to do more mapping in the Varlonge region in the near future.

Thanks and kind regards

Johannes

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Comment from trabantemnaksiezyc on 10 July 2017 at 19:33

I'm signing under he words of joschi81. I think that current state is great, especially with all the new villages and towns made by him and bhj867. It's realistic and has a lot of potential if further detailed. I was about to map some Vinnmark as well but seeing what other users have done i don't want to lower the overall level of the country (and I was busy with Shilesia as well).

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Comment from trabantemnaksiezyc on 10 July 2017 at 19:39

*the words. I'd also like to add that it would be sensible the Domont-Bornwerd area to become a part of a huge international agglomeration as there are multiple cities in close proximity to it.

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Comment from adminero_us on 10 July 2017 at 19:46

Hello dear mappers. I'd like to clarify some things.

  1. I didn't chose to be inactive for a year. School, and both physical and mental health problems did.

  2. I live the work you've done with Vinnmark, but I've never really liked how it's frontiers in the southern part look like. Vinnmark has a romboidal shape I don't really like nor consider realistic. Your work wouldn't be lost, as these cut-off regions could be annexed by Ventria or Kalm.

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Comment from bhj867 on 10 July 2017 at 19:54

My apologies, did not mean to question the reasoning behind why you were inactive, but you were still inactive all the while and turned it into a blue country. If you did not want to keep the edits by members of the team, there should have been a disclaimer about Vinnmark, such as "warning, if I dont like the edits of Vinnmark when I return, I may delete or change them." My point is that the edits I have made specifically in the north are made to go in conjunction with the current coastline. And changes to the coast really throw off everything that has been done.

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Comment from bhj867 on 10 July 2017 at 19:55

Not to mentiom the history in the wiki will have to be revised. Again.

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Comment from adminero_us on 10 July 2017 at 19:58

Not all the coastline is going to be changed, and the cities built in the place where I'm going to map that bay will not be left to sink, I will map an island so these cities will still exist.

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Comment from Myrcia on 10 July 2017 at 20:05

why not just not make any changes? they're obviously very unpopular with the other mappers in a collaborative territory and with admin and with your neighbours. I don't see how a country's shape could be deemed 'unrealistic' on a whim.

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Comment from bhj867 on 10 July 2017 at 20:05

Which would also throw off the river system in place. If that is what you wish. Please show us in a preliminary photoshoped or gimped image what you mean and how you will correct the watershed issues that will inevitably happen when the coast is drastically changed. Vinn was built to be sitting in a swamp or wetland between two rivers that flow as an outflow of lake Laika. Let's discuss this first please.

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Comment from bhj867 on 10 July 2017 at 20:06

Yeah Im not really understanding the "unrealisic" claim, I would like for you to elaborate.

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Comment from deltanz on 10 July 2017 at 20:07

@adminero_us when you became absent for the reasons you mentioned, you chose to make your country collaborative, that was YOUR decision! You could have sent a message to the admin team saying you were going through some difficult times and mapping would be compromised, so they would know and would keep your country there for yourself when you'd come back. That happens all the time, people leave and come back.

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Comment from trabantemnaksiezyc on 10 July 2017 at 20:22

I think that with right history virtually any shape of a territory could be realistic. But what is see in Vinnmark is a pretty sensible border based on natural features (forests and mountains).

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Comment from adminero_us on 10 July 2017 at 20:56

Okay I'll show you more info about my idea tomorrow.

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Comment from isleño on 11 July 2017 at 07:53

To quickly clarify a few things:

First, adminero_us is indeed the owner of this land, as shown on the overview map/list. When this territory was marked for withdrawal earlier this year, he explained to admin that current circumstances temporarily prevented him from mapping, but that he still wished to keep the territory. (As a side note, when countries are abandoned, their fate is determined based on the needs of the community, not former owners' wishes.)

Second, adminero_us unilaterally declared his country to be "collaborative," which is not quite the same thing as making a territory blue. Blue territories are designated by the admin team only, and have no owner. In fact, Vinnmark never met the requirements to become an official collaborative on the overview map/list, so it was never even purple. Officially speaking, it is no different from any other private territory.

Unofficially, of course, it is different from other private territories... since others have done considerable mapping there. So it's good for adminero_us to be respectful toward the others mapping in his territory, and it's also good for the others to be cautious about investing time and effort in an unofficial collaborative, unless they know and trust the owner and share a common vision of collaboration.

And separate from all this, as Thilo mentioned, is the issue of making such a big change in the coastline. "Not going to happen," is putting it more bluntly than I would, but the point remains. This is a case where others should be consulted — and since this coast was already subject to past negotiations, it's unlikely that people will want to change it again.

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Comment from bhj867 on 11 July 2017 at 18:14

Well, rules are rules, and they are there to protect the sovereignty of all mappers within their territories, not exclusively or necessarily to produce quality mapping. With that being said, I am done mapping in Vinnmark. Isleno is right. We should not have invested so much time in Vinnmark. Adminero I do wish you luck in Vinnmark. I hope what we started there can be a framework for future endeavors in your country, but your vision of the country (and ultimately your approach) is not popular with your neighbors or myself and for me I do not see myself able to negotiate with a mapper that cares more about his ownership of said country than with quality mapping through collaberation (even if it was at his own choosing). Ill concentrate on my own country from now own. To Vinnmark's neighbors, good luck.

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Comment from adminero_us on 11 July 2017 at 18:22

I'm not going to change anything, that's it.

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Comment from bhj867 on 11 July 2017 at 18:28

Oh stop. It's not that we dont want you to change anything at all. We are asking you collaberate like you initially stated. Start working on smaller details in the cities, etc. There is so much you can do.

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Comment from adminero_us on 11 July 2017 at 18:29

Your work is not going to be lost. I'm not gonna screw up all you've done, and I appreciate everything you've done for this country. I'm available to negotiate the changes so nobody is upset about them. But please, don't write such an offensive comment.

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Comment from bhj867 on 11 July 2017 at 18:31

Discuss said ideas before you go willy nilly changes things, but at this point Im not interested in mapping there anymore. Basically your approach is too childish for my taste and takes away from the spirit of collaberation and sets the tone from this point forward, a pandora's box YOU opened. The rules are in your favor, whether we agree with them or not, its up to you now what you want to do with your country.

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Comment from bhj867 on 11 July 2017 at 18:32

Offensive, I havent called you out a name once. Like i said. You sound so childish. I cannot and will not map with you anymore and this discussion is over.

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Comment from bhj867 on 11 July 2017 at 18:40

On this note. We can channel this to make a war between Pretany and Vinnmark sometime in our history. its all good😉 im not mad.

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Comment from oscar2002 on 11 July 2017 at 20:35

Really I don't know if is a good idea comment these theme because I don't the owner of any territory in that area, but I... I think that Vinmark could be one of the more realistic countries in OGF: it haves the size and the hubication (surranded by very good and active mappers) for be developed with a hard level of detail. Now it have a great mapped and highly discussed geography (I read all about the theme, belive it or not) Finally, the borders of the country are one of my favorite in all OGF, I don't think that it looks "unrealistic", sincerely. SO here I finish with my irrelevant opinion

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Comment from adminero_us on 11 July 2017 at 20:55

Thank you @oscar2002

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Comment from trabantemnaksiezyc on 12 July 2017 at 20:50

So... what is going to happen in the end?

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