OpenGeofiction

Connect Uletha: The TUTN Project (Trans-Ulethan Transport Networks)

Posted by stjur on 8 June 2017 in Romanian (Română)

Priority axes and projects of TUTN (sketch)

This subject has been brought up many times before. Uletha needs to be more connected. Now that the OGF map features a wonderful navigation system, everyone would love to travel across the continent. There is only one problem, the international traffic network.

Many countries have no streets or railways, others have way too many, leading to unpopulated regions. That's why we need a continentally recognized and strategically placed transport network, which would help users to place their roads and railways the right way, leading towards the main transport axes of Uletha.

In the image above I've sketched what I think the most strategic transport axes of the continent would be, from an objective point of view. I also mentioned the countries they go through here.

TUTN is a project proposed by the Ulethan Alliance for Culture to bring Ulethan cultures closer. It was recently adopted by the Assembly of Nations and should be put into operation soon.

What do you think? Could this help "making Uletha great again"? Do you find any more potential transport axes in Uletha?

Find out more about TUTN at: wiki.opengeofiction.net/wiki/Trans-Ulethan_Transport_Networks

Comment from Yuanls on 8 June 2017 at 18:59

This subject has been brought up many times before. It has stagnated and been rejected on every occasion.

Geographic and economical implausibility, clashes with existing history/politics/mapping, 'too many cooks spoiling the broth' abandoned countries, unresponsive users, you name it. Your scheme will not happen. At all.

On a personal I'm not very happy with this scheme either, as a sudden intrusion into Glaster. I would advise moving it into a 'sandbox' page, as by writing an official wiki page about it you've basically put it into the 'official' OGF history.

What I would say is a better idea is try to get a local project of transport standardisation and expand it gradually. Alternatively you can wait for the new continents to become available and then progress from there, where existing geographical, economic and political constraints are easier to deal with.

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Comment from stjur on 8 June 2017 at 19:15

I agree with you, the project is way too big, but it should be a reference point for anyone who is mapping in Uletha. Inactive countries will be taken over by other, new mappers, who will start by drawing nonsense motorways; this project should give them a image on where they should place them and, who knows, maybe in a few years we will have a continental transport network!

Uletha is and stays the old continent and just leaving it to start a new reality on the other side of the world is not what we should want. We can't leave Uletha a mess, that's what Commonia is for. I can definitely say that I will not map on the new continents.

Anyway, I moved the page to my sandbox, but if you have any ideas please feel free to edit it!

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Comment from bhj867 on 8 June 2017 at 19:37

Pretany already has the rail and road network in place for a project like this, but getting other countries and the innactive countries involved will be too difficult to finish a project like this.

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Comment from eklas on 8 June 2017 at 19:47

I'm in. Obviously it's going to be hard setting this up, especially with route 3 going through the Axian Peninsula which is shattered into many small countries, but for me personally it fits well with the road/rail network I envisioned for Drabantia and it's always great to have more guidelines for new users planning out their countries.

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Comment from eklas on 8 June 2017 at 19:52

Then also, even if this fails, it's still a cool scheme showing the possible main trade routes in Uletha.

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Comment from stjur on 8 June 2017 at 20:28

@bhj867 Pretany's transport network is great, that's why I thought it should be involved in two TUTN axes. Inactive countries will be active again eventually and new and other country owners won't have the ambition on cooperating with others in transport systems because they see that no one does. But if the top countries in Uletha decide to work towards a continental transport network, others will try to imitate them. After all new or young users always look at what the others do and try to do the same (...), so I think the project could work!

@eklas Well, you're the master of trains and transport in general, that's why I thought Drabantia could be a great junction for axes TUTN-2 and -4. Guidelines are very important indeed, especially for new users. I, for instance, was quite confused when I got my territory, because I didn't know anything about elevations in that region, about where to put motorways, about what the climate was etc.

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Comment from trabantemnaksiezyc on 8 June 2017 at 20:30

I'd rather connect up all the highway and road systems on borders. The problem is that through the western Uletha there is a huge strip of big abandoned countries (which are unavaible - I assume they'll become community projects at some point). And I don't think you can "cross" them through roads.

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Comment from trabantemnaksiezyc on 8 June 2017 at 20:33

A-and a quick note for one of your proposed routes - you can't go from Welstand-Westrijk to Estensia, you need to go through Shilesia and Utterland.

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Comment from stjur on 8 June 2017 at 20:49

@trabantemnaksiezyk (I'm already able to write your name without looking; 1 month of learning Polish might actually have been quite useful) - In the sketch I actually avoided the abandoned countries in central-western Uletha, although now that you brought it up, I have to tell you, that my actual and your former country Antharia might be moving soon ... right here, between two abandoned giants, which might also be split into some smaller, available countries...

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Comment from bhj867 on 8 June 2017 at 21:36

Let us know when this project is green lit and I will make sure to edit the road networks in Pretany around the cities to make them more user friendly for exiting and entering the border areas in the appropriate locations. For any user that has to edit through the Egyt Mountains, good luck and try to be realistic with tunnels, downgrades, and passes. Estensia and Pretany have limited border crossings due to the elevation.

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Comment from bhj867 on 8 June 2017 at 21:38

I suggest a standard 4-8 lane (depending on the population of the area) divided motorway with 4 high speed rail lines in between

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Comment from bhj867 on 8 June 2017 at 21:40

That way it at least stands out on the map and it should be labeled with the appropriate referance tags and named (TUTN) or (International motorway or railway)

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Comment from stjur on 8 June 2017 at 21:49

That's a very good idea, we should definitely add some sort of tag to make it stand out, but I wouldn't write it as road reference, because that's where the national designation should stand (like A1, A2 ... in my country)

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Comment from stjur on 8 June 2017 at 21:55

Also, the border between Pretany and Ísztianország can be passed near Pramda, right?

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Comment from martinum4 on 8 June 2017 at 22:46

Definitely an interesting idea. I'm based in another continent so it doesn't affect me directly...

In general I have a different proposal that is kind of related to this one. I'd like the idea of mutual edited border areas, e.g. 10km at each side. That way one could easier connect roads railways and power lines with neighboring countries while also improving border details, most of the borders look so boring and flat for long stretches, this could be hugely improved. we could make another one of these maps where everyone who wants to handle it like that marks the corresponding country with a thumbs up, or even integrated it into the territories overview map. We could even go further and make international rules for highway/railway=proposed, these are not rendered by any map so far but could be used if you want to show your neighbors where you think a connection in more than that 10km border area would look good, it would be especially useful for things like railways where you are dealing with really high radii for HSR-Tracks.

Hope my late rambling kinda makes sense...

Kind regards

Martin

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Comment from bhj867 on 8 June 2017 at 22:57

Pramda or Warcop Castle, Warcop castle is easier because the stretch from Pramda through the egyts is envisioned as a tunnel with very high passes and drop offs. It would be tricky to build something of that magnitude through those mountains. Imagine the Himalayas, but not as tall, that is roughly how high the egyts are through that unmapped stretch. The problem with the Warcop Castle route is how far north it is compared to the entry point in Southeast Pretany, and then there is the problem of Estensia being mostly unmapped northwest of Warcop castle. I don't know what Joshi wants to do with that area yet.

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Comment from bhj867 on 8 June 2017 at 23:01

The southwestern entrance of the North-South route will be easy. Westward Gate was already an ancient trade route entrance in the middle ages. You just have to get Thilo involved for Sathria. Or you could just follow the natural river pass of the Barsas to Vevla in Sathria.

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Comment from bhj867 on 8 June 2017 at 23:03

I've always thought there should be a road from Westward Gate to Bezantyra anyway.

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Comment from zhenkang on 9 June 2017 at 09:23

Although my country is not in Uletha, I wish this project a success. However, maybe you should start small, in small regions, then after that connect the dots to one.

I hope this is adopted in Archanta soon! Actually if this is successful, I thought of writing a travel journal in Uletha, which includes features in the country and transport modes.

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Comment from isleño on 9 June 2017 at 21:54

Some reasons why people oppose these types of plans:

  • In many areas, we don't know which countries will be important, or where the biggest centers of population might be, or which corridors might have the highest density. Similarly, we don't know where obstacles might be, like war-torn regions or uncooperative regimes. Therefore we can't make an intelligent, informed sketch of major transportation routes, when so much of the information that would determine that sketch is still unknown.
  • Even if all the information were known, and we could create a well-informed map of where likely axes would be, it still wouldn't be realistic to encourage roadbuilding to follow such a guide. On a vast, diverse, fragmented continent, it's not likely that many roads would actually be situated to facilitate trans-continental travel. For example, road planners in Pakistan don't arrange their motorways to connect Berlin with Bangkok. The overwhelming majority of traffic is local or regional, so roads are built primarily to serve those routes. International designations, where they exist, are normally an afterthought.
  • Even if a map like this could help us develop a realistic pattern of roadways across a continent, it still wouldn't be wise to encourage more motorways. Promoting this kind of network would not only encourage motorways along its original routes, but would also cause motorway construction beyond those routes, as more mappers seek to connect to the system, or even expand the system to include their countries. Six routes could soon become eight, ten, etc. And then of course people on other continents would want to start their own networks... and soon we'd have motorways all over. Just like a country with motorways everywhere, a world that is too conveniently connected starts to feel less realistic.

Sure, some countries have way too many motorways, but a continental road network isn't likely to fix that. Instead, we should urge those with too many motorways to reclassify some routes as lesser roads (not based on a continental plan, but on their own domestic needs). And sure, some countries have no roads at all… but again, a continental road network won't fix that either, since these areas are still under construction, and will continue to be for many years. And yes, the navigation system has difficulty with long distances in Uletha, but this isn't an urgent problem. It's not like driving from Paris to Phnom Penh is a common Earth activity that needs to be reproduced here. Even if it was, the obvious place to start would be getting territory owners to fix their existing road networks so that they function properly when it comes to routing.

Rather than making Uletha more 'connected,' I think the bigger issue is that it should be more coherent:

  • It looks odd when countries don't 'fit' together well on the map. Neighbors should communicate with each other and try to make their countries blend together better.
  • Related to that, neighbors should work together to create realistic borders, and those bordering unclaimed countries should add detail to those as well. As for martinum4's comment, those who actually want to draw over the line (into their neighbor's territory) can easily ask their neighbor for permission and discuss details together.
  • Countries with too many motorways stand out awkwardly on the map. Owners of these countries should consider reclassifying as many routes as they can.
  • Those who own territories that are too large for them should contact admin to downsize and relinquish land so that others can develop it to its full potential.
  • More mappers should explore the idea of relocation, to help bring similar nations closer together, forming regions of countries that naturally belong near one another. This would help Uletha feel a lot less disjointed and random. And if those countries want to form smaller, more limited, regional road networks, that might be less problematic than a continent-wide framework.
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Comment from Leowezy on 9 June 2017 at 21:57

Just a quick note; the "real world equivalent" of this, the Trans-European Transport Networks (TEN-T) are to be understood as corridors, rather than one single continues piece of infrastructure. Of course it makes sense to have a continuous highway route through major population centres of the continent, but those routes are the result of stitching together national networks. Also, the amount of cross-continental traffic on major highways or railways is not to be overestimated. To give a flat example, while the A 8 in Germany is technically part of a major European east-west axis, the absolute majority of traffic will be regular boring German commuters on their way to work. And it even has a major gap between Pirmasens and Karlsruhe, over 50 km.

What I'm trying to say is, it definitely makes sense to think about important trade corridors for the continents and their respective traffic volumes, but let's not start to simply draw a 10.000 km long straight line across whole regions and declare it an intercontinental highway.

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Comment from bhj867 on 10 June 2017 at 01:44

I agree with Isleno. I would love if some "western European" type countries would take the place of Estensia to the north. Joshi would probably disapprove, but that would make me happy to share a border with an active member,

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Comment from TheMapper27 on 10 June 2017 at 20:00

I have an island country with a maritime border with Eshein (ifgus) so if ifgus says yes the green road can have spur starting in Eshein and ending in Voltaville (the easternmost city of my country)

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