OpenGeofiction

Wars and conflicts

Posted by Ūdilugbulgidħū on 7 November 2015 in English (English).

Following discussion with a few of you, I’ve finally got around to creating a wiki of the historical wars, conflicts and revolts our countries have suffered from. It has to be said that we appear a lot more civilised that the real world is!

However, in the interests of bringing countries alive - and this is all it is - I would like to suggest to you all that the world is the war it is today partly because of the way conflicts have shaped us. Unless people here have been expanding into areas where no-one has ever been before - and there must be places like that - there will surely have been conflicts between one tribe and another tribe, and between one nation and another. Whether you speak the same language or entirely different ones, there will have been times in history when people disagreed, or maybe things were just better in one country than in another, and people wanted to take it away. And what about the civil wars that caused so many nations to turn out the way they have, with one sector of the population having more power than another. How did your country manage to sort that out, when the one next door has gone the other way?

Whatever your position, please realise that the conflicts wiki is not intended to be a place to promote one form of government or ideology over another, but to help bring countries alive and help them fit into a bigger OGF picture. Feel free to put any ideas there.

The best to you all Udi

Comment from Rasmus Rasmusson on 7 November 2015 at 20:16

Good initiative. I had just been wondering this week how I could implement some “significant (violent) international events” into Řots. The problem is also the presence of absent or less active neighbours. Is it e.g. possible to impose certain historic events on an area, which a newcomer has to incorporate into his or her country’s history?

Comment from iBallasticwolf2 on 7 November 2015 at 20:51

Thanks, I’ve added my country’s conflicts now.

Comment from BelpheniaProject on 7 November 2015 at 21:00

I think I’m considering to write about my country’s Battle of Shirahoshi soon. Anyway, nice idea!

Comment from isleño on 7 November 2015 at 21:03

Thanks Udi for starting the Wars and Conflicts wiki page!

For those who haven’t found it, the page is here:

http://opengeofiction.net/wiki/index.php/Wars_and_Conflicts

And there’s discussion happening on the talk page:

http://opengeofiction.net/wiki/index.php/Talk:Wars_and_Conflicts

Udi makes an excellent point that these conflicts should not be seen as a way to promote any form of government or ideology. I’d also add that they are not an opportunity to glorify any OGF country or user. OGF isn’t a game of winning victories and conquering territories. We are not the “leaders” of our countries, merely the artists of their geographies and the authors of their stories.

Any users wishing to participate in an international conflict should plan it out together in advance, to ensure that they all agree on the same storyline. Users should not enter a conflict unless they can fully separate their countries from their personal identities. We don’t want to see any disagreements between users, only between countries. No country should ever be involved without the enthusiastic consent of its owner, and no conflict should ever occur without the friendly cooperation of everyone involved.

@RasmusRasmusson — unfortunately this means that, no, we can’t “impose” conflicts outside our borders. If you lack willing neighbors and don’t want to arrange a long-distance conflict with a faraway country, you can always invent some invader or antagonist out of thin air, without specifying their place of origin, and/or you can split historical Řots into multiple countries to create “international” events without involving other users. In the near future we’re also hoping to discuss the idea of “superpowers” which can be used as historical players in various conflicts. So… lots of possibilities open to you. :-)

On a related note, I have to say it’s a great pleasure to be working with BMSOUZA and deltanz on the Goytakanya/Suvuma story. More developments coming soon!

Comment from Ernestpcosby on 7 November 2015 at 22:45

Freedemia chooses respectfully to not have been involved in any international conflicts historically or in the near future-at least not in a military aspect. A large part of Freedemia’s unique history was the fact that we’ve never had a large international conflict. We’ve had minor “National Guard” style situations, such as a famous standoff at a middle school in the 90’s that took over a week to resolve and a small rebellion over an imminent domain case in the 60’s-70’s, but that’s about it. Perhaps we could help push for peace or historically take refugees or something, but I’d prefer to not have Freedemia involved in any international conflicts.

Woolonia, on the other hand, is supposed to have been much less stable before the past year or so, especially considering the whole situation that made the country shrink to half what it was originally. It would make more sense to have included Woolonia in larger historical conflicts, although it is meant to be much more peaceful now.

Comment from Paxtar on 8 November 2015 at 00:57

I’ve also recently given some thought to how calm the OGF world is, unlike the real one, and how conflict shapes maps. This animated historical map of Europe is a good illustration.

Since there do not seem to be many evil despots in the OGF world, maybe having a few would be helpful. Creating a few open territories to be historical (and maybe present day) punching bags for everyone else would solve the problem. We can all boycott “Evilonia”, have historical wars with them, complain about their human rights abuses, and not need to have a conflict with an actual user. No feelings to be hurt.

Comment from Luciano on 8 November 2015 at 02:14

I like @Paxtar’s point, but I would also observe that when users have more than one country (as many do), it’s always possible to make one of them “Evilonia,” and run it as a “punching bag,” while still having a chance to be the “good guy” with the other country. In fact the admins have had quite a few discussions of this issue. My own solution, so far, is to make extensive use of the “blue countries”: I like to imagine Commonia as a kind of failed superpower, and assume it is behind all kinds of conflict and complexity in the current world.

I have also tried to write histories for my countries where they swing between “benevolent” and “malevolent” - thus although I like to think of Mahhal in the modern era as a “good guy,” it has a very dark history. In collaboration with others, I’d be happy to develop some specific bad behaviors in the past if anyone has some ideas. I also hope to someday take on the project of giving a geographical reality to my Gohanguk concept, something intended to be “worse” than North Korea. If, in the meantime, people want to use/blame Gohanguk for various bad things like international drug trade or black market, terrorism, etc., they are free to do so. I have already hinted that at some point in the 1950s, Gohanguk managed to detonate a nuclear device in Commonia - maybe that explains the messed up cartography?

Comment from Portopolis on 8 November 2015 at 02:54

My country Lallemand is very half and half half of it is communist and very conservative and half of it is liberal and very democratic. I also have certain roles for my country like how Lallemand is responsible for bringing drug addiction of a certain Lallemanyan National Plant worldwide. (For Example I plan for my national plant to be a drug found in Lallemand that has/ was transported worldwide to other tropical islands(growing) and for conventional use(worldwide) by the Ingerish and Lallemanyan Sailors kind of like Opium. I also plan this to be nationally funded by the liberal side and worth 3.5% of the economy with government shipping it etc. and IT to be illegally dealt in the communist anti-drugs side etc. I don’t want my country to be solidly good or bad but to be a huge mixture of both, as for my other nation Hoppon, I want it to be known for it’s until recent anti-foreigner policy, and I want it to be connected culturally/ethnically to the natives of surrounding countries so it would culturally have a anti- Ingerish/ Nirthern Uletha streak or wherever the superpowers/ colonizers are from. So even though it is kind of like Japan, I want it to be all though physically more diverse than japan (Because it isn’t an island) it is still an extremely closed society in the peninsula were the Hopponese came from and the border areas are seen as harboring foreigners etc, and more forward thinking but also less advanced people. These are all ideas that I have kept in my head about my different countries histories.

I am currently involved in the Suvumese Conflict and already have a refugee camp filled mostly with Pagbo (Ethnic Minority fighting for independence that started with terrorists in the late 90’s attacking their own Pagbo villages there fore alienating their own people forcing them to flee to Avewood who then much smaller built refugee camps where the Pagbo stayed ) and Gotykano/Suvumese (If there are any) Refugees.

Camp can be seen here— http://opengeofiction.net/#map=15/14.0457/95.6448

Comment from Demuth on 8 November 2015 at 09:33

I agree with everyone, this is a very good initiative, thanks Udi! And I very much second Udi’s and Isleño’s points: It’s very important to remember this is not a game of tactics and strategy nor is it a place to promote ideologies. It’s a place for creating realistic maps.

Anyway, adding onto Luciano’s and Portopolis’ comments about creating villainous countries, I’m hoping Østermark will also be one, albeit on a small scale. I’m focusing on mapping and not the wiki, but my thinking is that they are still a whaling country and that many other countries have sanctions against them, and that they’re not very well liked. Not to mention (pre-agreed) very tense relations with neighbors to the northwest, Nucia, with which Østermark shares the island of Nyrike. Which is all to say, feel free to beat up a bit on us as well. Or be hypocritical and use Østermark’s cheap labor for your overseas production while decrying the whaling policies.

Comment from oscar2002 on 8 November 2015 at 10:34

Español:

A mi me parece una idea fantástica la de crear un artículo en la wiki sobre los conflictos y guerras,ya que la verdad, partece que este mundo sea mas civilizado que el nuestro.

Por mi lado, mi único país: Pohenicia, se va a mantener al margen de cualquier gran conflicto internacional, ya que carece potencial militar, por lo que he planteado que Pohenicia sea un pais más al estilo de Suiza, neutral y con un gran desarrollo economico, excluyendo conflictos internos como la guerra civil de 1978-1980.

English:

It seems to me a fantastic idea to create an article in the wiki about conflicts and wars, because the truth, partece make this world more civilized than ours.

For me, my only country: Pohenicia, will be maintained outside of any major international conflict, lacking military power, so Pohenicia have argued that a country is more in the style of Switzerland, neutral and with a great development economic, excluding internal conflicts and civil war 1978-1980.

Comment from histor on 8 November 2015 at 10:48

Zylanda (under the kings) had a short imperialistic phase (see Rumpgaard and Greunalfdool). But today this land is peaceful and can be peaceful, if it has - together with Latina - a strong army and navy.

Latina itself - after the war of independence around 1800 AD - has set outside the borders only against indigen tribes til 1888.

Comment from Pawl on 8 November 2015 at 11:18

This is really good! The more we can bring our histories together into a coherent whole, the better (without interfering too much with people’s freedom to develop countries as they like).

I see my countries - Tircambry and Wesmandy - as fairly stable, small, democracies unlikely to be involved in any major conflicts at the moment, except perhaps as part of peacekeeping forces. But their pasts are a different story, with all the usual types of wars and internal conflicts which European countries have suffered over the centuries.

There’s been some talk of a World War. I wonder if we could agree on the basics of when and where this happened, even if the details take longer to work out? It could be pretty fundamental to many modern histories, and to some city layouts, e.g. depending on whether or not they were bombed.

Comment from Ernestpcosby on 8 November 2015 at 18:16

Other than the discussed Suvuma-Gotanyanka conflict are there any other widespread conflicts going on now? Like actual military conflicts between nations?

Comment from dono87 on 8 November 2015 at 19:44

Ataraxia participated in a “2nd wave” of colonialism in late 19th or early 20th centuries, notably in Akinyaka and Commonia. It could have been involved in some related international conflict then, perhaps for resources or territories. (Also removed the Ingerish from Élisabethville in early 1700’s).

Since then, no major conflicts, though Ataraxia can participate in peacekeeping missions with the AN (which would be where??)

Internal conflict - not much, other than the occupation of the Free State of the Upper Var in 1915 and continuing political questions over its status.

PS. Commonia I saw as a lesser-developed nation, hence many other nations and cultures have been able to establish rival spheres of influence?

Comment from Ernestpcosby on 8 November 2015 at 20:06

@dono87 The AN is in St. Richards, Pretany.

Comment from dono87 on 8 November 2015 at 20:22

Hah - This much I know. Question is where would the peacekeeping missions be located?

Comment from iBallasticwolf2 on 8 November 2015 at 20:30

Internal conflict in Farax- Alexander Monhaven Regime between the 30s and 70s. Many citizens of Farax were murdered for questioning the government until during a parade in 1963 a rebel group assinated the dictator. Since then, Farax has been a very liberal and peaceful country.

Comment from bhj867 on 9 November 2015 at 00:02

I agree on the discussion of a world War

Comment from Ernestpcosby on 9 November 2015 at 00:36

Ah @dono87 sorry :P

Comment from Ūdilugbulgidħū on 9 November 2015 at 01:30

Thanks for filling in all those wars!

Some thoughts on this, and particularly on a World War:

If there are enough conflicts/belligerents in one war, and it is taking place at the same time in different parts of the world, then really that is how a ‘Regional War’ would come to be a ‘World War’. Maybe, the simplest thing to do is to add to one of the wars in the table, or to add in a specific war, indicating what nations joined in and where they fought, and against who (and of course, with the willing consent of all participants). It may need a ‘superpower’ to step in for it to become a believable conflict. But again, a ‘superpower’ could just be a few nearby nations working together on a shared history.

I’d suggest that first it is important to work out dates for a major conflict; with the AN being established in the ’60s, the likelihood is that any major war ended in one of the two previous decades (or else the AN would have been established sooner?). So if those of you ‘wanting’ to be involved in a joined up series of conflicts, you could set a date range - say 10-15 years - and develop wars within that period. If there is just one world war, maybe it would make sense for it to be slightly earlier than either of the two real world wars, so say the end of the 1920s or early ’30s, and possibly to run on slightly longer, maybe ending at different times in different places, to give some leeway.

The general causes of a world war are of course fundamental, but if in the 1930s are likely to be strongly linked to ideology - though it could vary completely between different nations. Together with user Pawl, we’re working on a series of wars, including a historical early/mid 20th century war, in a new country - Ionadàlba - that helped define our national borders. With this knowledge, we’ll be able to map the historical legacies of that war. The same applies to more ancient conflicts in our area. Early days, but that war could be a precursor for a major world conflict. I’ll enter this war in the table shortly.

Lastly, it is probably not publicised but I expect there has been serious historical conflict in Pretanic Facton State. Whether it is ongoing or not you’d have to check with user bhj867!

–~~~~

Comment from bhj867 on 9 November 2015 at 01:42

I need to add the Pretanic Faction State to the list. I forgot. That country could be a key player in a WW.

Comment from iBallasticwolf2 on 9 November 2015 at 02:26

@ Ūdilugbulgidħū Perhaps a world war taking place in the 30s could involve the Monhaven War, Farax would have sort of been the Evilonia from the 30s until the 60s when Monhaven was assinated and Farax became a democracy again.

Comment from Boge on 10 November 2015 at 02:07

Rogolnika cannot participate in an ‘international conflict’, since it is still recovering from its disastrous civil war that took place in the late 19th century, plus it has a rather weak and fractious democratic government. However, I can propose that Rogolnika can accomodate some refugees from the aftermath of the “world war/international conflict”, since their country/ies were destroyed and they’d want to stay away from the conflict as much as possible, assuming that the said war took place in the 30s or 40s. It would also make sense to the draconian policy of Rogolnikan dictator Golmerxan, in which he ordered the ‘expulsion of most illegal refugees/immigrants’ during his 60s-70s regime. Eventually, it can be considered as “Evilonia” a few decades after the end of the world war.

Comment from clik on 14 November 2015 at 23:36

Egani can take part in the world war as an ally of some nearby country. I planned a semi-internal war that could have occured in 1920’s and have spread east and south.


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