OpenGeofiction
Responding to Luciano’s challenge, I would like to know a bit more what other mappers think about this area. The map is obviously far from complete - and there are still relics of earlier experiments there - but, all in all, what in this city is wrong? What should I focus on deleting and reworking?
For background, there is info in the Kėzėpölān wiki, but all this is tentative (especially the economic stuff). The main points may be:
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cool climate
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very limited private car ownership
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focus on family life and education
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commitment to ‘self-sufficiency’ in food production, wide use of marine resources
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commitment to hi-technology and industry
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commitment to development of sports and arts
you can of course critique these as well.
Happy mapping Udi
Discussion
Comment from Gubble on 4 December 2016 at 15:14
It’s an interesting city. I do like how all the neighborhoods are separated, and within each neighborhood, each building seems like its own little community. The first thing which stands out is its very high capacity transportation network. For a small island like this, there probably shouldn’t be any more than 1 or 2 tram lines and perhaps a light rail connecting one harbor to another harbor. The number of rail lines should be reduced. Also, in a city of this size, there should be pretty much no interchanges. I would recommend replacing all of them with roundabouts. The entrance to the harbor at the north is also very narrow for a harbor that size and should probably be widened. The bridge across the end of the harbor seems unnecessary- I do not see much traffic which would go across that, in real life, expensive to build bridge. The second thing which stands out is that the industrial and commercial areas are too big. I’m not 100% sure how much you intend to expand the city but the area covered by the residential should be larger than the industrial and commercial combined whereas currently, the industrial area looks perhaps even bigger than the residential. But I love the style and the road plan.
Comment from Sarepava on 4 December 2016 at 19:53
The big issue here is the your have megapolis-scale infrastructure for a tiny island. Take a look at some comparable islands in the real world: Orkney; Jersey; Malta; Ibiza; Barbados. They are characterised by having one moderately-sized town, mostly residential, little to no heavy industry, no railways, and only a few medium-grade roads, generally following the coast. No way could Kezepolan’s economy support the infrastructure here, nor require the huge buildings. The island’s population is tiny judging by the number of buildings, a few thousand at best.
The topography here is very unlikely to occur naturally. I don’t know how high the peaks are, but the chances of an island with a ring of hills surrounding a convenient natural harbour are almost nil. Most isolated islands have a central peak, or else are very flat. Other issues such as caves in marshland are next to impossible.
Way too many roads for a small country with low car ownership. Where is everyone going?
Way too many railways. Half of them go nowhere or just make big circles, but mostly the island is so small that it makes no economic sense when you could cycle from one side of town to the other in ten minutes. There is perhaps justification for one single-track line between the oil refinery and the military base.
The entire island needs a complete rework. Look at nearby Tarreses for an example of a believable small-island nation.
Comment from Ūdilugbulgidħū on 5 December 2016 at 00:38
Thanks for the comments, so far, MrOobling, Sarepava (& in another string Luciano & Demuth). I really appreciate the effort to look at this and I’ll address them in due course, Meantime, surely other mappers have views too? Does this place look too unrealistic to be allowed to continue to exist? What would you keep; what would you delete?
Comment from Luciano on 5 December 2016 at 01:21
Here’s a thought - following up on my message to you which preceded this diary post.
As several mappers have observed, there’s an issue with seemingly excessive transport infrastructure. I think you’re trying to capture the “high tech” aspect of the society (or “high development”, anyway). But as Sarepava asks, “Where is everyone going?”
The city is only about 5 km across. Frankly, if I lived there, I’d just walk everywhere. As it is, I live in a city (well, suburb) of about 1 million, crammed, South Korean style, into an oblong about 6 km long and 3 km wide. Public transit is excellent, and everyone owns cars, anyway, but me… I walk everywhere.
There seems to be a lot of public transit available. If the society truly has “limited private car ownership” I would go in the direction of simply declaring the island a “no car zone” (as a kind of ideological preexisting condition) and see how that plays out on your map.
Foremost, it eliminates the motorways… which in turn, makes the preponderance of railways a little more believable. With respect to railways, I’d get rid of the “circles” - any circle with less than a 2km diameter isn’t plausibly transporting anything, and is only serving as a “turnaround” - but it would be cheaper and more typical to have “two-headed” trains and/or mechanical reversers (i.e. pick up the vehicle and spin it around pointed the other direction and put it back down).
You can convert all the remaining, non-motorway streets to “highway=pedestrian” with maybe a few “access=private” service roads as busways (also for emergency vehicles). This “no car” description happens to be my ultimate plan for the Kshang native lands (a project currently on hold).
Comment from Ūdilugbulgidħū on 5 December 2016 at 11:19
Thanks for these comments. My thoughts so far:
Topography
The topography is not meant to be natural, its partly the result of extensive quarrying. But real places the topo is based on are Deception Island, Easdale Island and Shetland. The topo will definitely be revised, but this set-up of central harbour with surrounding hills will likely remain. Hill height I’m still not 100% sure of. Suggestions?
This is based on the real ‘Neptune’s Bellows’. Perhaps it should be a little wider, yes.
The caves are in ‘scrub’. But perhaps they would make more sense on cliff lines.
Population/residential areas
High-density high-rise buildings. I’m not sure of exact population, but it can be calculated per building to give a final figure. Target is c750k.
Yes, good point. I think there has to be more residential. I should probably have made clearer that this is only abut 1/3 mapped so far, but even so there has to be more of this.
Yes, this will be revised, so:
Rail
I will try and remove at least half of them (or replace with alternatives like cycleways/footways/skateways) .
However … if there are limited private cars, perhaps the current tram (& narrow gauge rail) capability is feasible?
Yes, I agree. I’ll deal with as many of these circles as I can (it was worse before).
Roads
Good point. I will downgrade all the roads.
Maybe, but I think I will try other alternatives to try first.
No cars? Ok. No motorbikes? Rickshaws?
To see the show? To visit friends on the other side of town? To work in the smelter? To spit on the tomb of the megolomanic architect?
Comment from Leowezy on 6 December 2016 at 21:59
I will try not to repeat what others have said and just throw my two cents (or Zubi) in:
This surely depends on the height of the mountains, but I find the general setup of having a “ring” of peaks surrounding a large valley not too unbelieveable. It might add to the realism if it has one more “opening” to another side. I think one could come up with some geological explanations as for why the valley has the shape that it has, maybe it used to be a large bay and after falling sea levels it found itself to be drying up and building up even higher due to organic plant material etc.? The excessive mining could in my honest opinion only explain a very small part; even if you could argue that there has been intense human activities for millennia, what would demand such huge masses of earth and, with regard to its island nature, where would it go to?
If you end up sustaining a population of 500k+, I think more than the afore mentioned two tramlines are feasible; but I think that’s a question to be dealt with once the human geography is settled. I would however encourage you to, while of course staying within the tight limits realism and laws of nature set you, still be creative and dare to create a place unlike any we have on earth. It would be interesting to hear something about the wider history you imagined for this island.