Delete Please!

Posted by CartographerKing on 18 December 2017 in English (English)


Comment from Myrcia on 18 December 2017 at 19:26

All I would say is that this video doesn't exactly show best practice when it comes to mapping in OGF. It's good that you relate your design to the real world but copy-pasting dozens of identical buildings is not something we want to encourage. I think tutorial videos could be helpful but just watching someone map is not going to be that informative unless it is one or two really good mappers.

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Comment from TheHolyEpicpenguin on 18 December 2017 at 20:25

What we need on youtube isn't opengeofiction videos of copying and pasting rectangular buildings for two minutes straight. If you're going to try to integrate opengeofiction on a gaming channel (as I got from your youtube channel's name), at least attempt to describe what opengeofiction is or something with special emphasis on the fact that it's for mapping out countries and cultures, not building an empire or roleplaying wars and actually controlling countries.

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Comment from Thunderbird on 18 December 2017 at 22:57

Interesting idea but be original, think of your own roads, don't copy

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Comment from Luciano on 19 December 2017 at 02:03

I'm going to actually push back on those who criticize the "copy / paste" mode, and the references to copying from a real world map.

Obviously, OGF is not for copying recognizable chunks of real-world geography. And certainly, I really dislike those who think it's creative to cut-and-paste from OSM directly (we have mappers who have done that, and that creates problems not just in terms of creativity but also legal problems).

But I think there's a place for a method that I think of as "trace and transform." I have taught myself a lot of mapping skills by doing that. Nothing that I have made is a direct copy of real world geography. But... during a certain phase of learning to use the OGF tools more effectively, I would often trace things from real-world maps, which I then chopped up and rearranged, collage-like. It can be a great learning process. Some of those "collages" are further altered or deleted, now (as when I deleted my capital in Ardisphere, recently).

But in principle, there's nothing wrong with what @CartographerKing is doing here. It's a learning process, and how can you become comfortable with trying to produce realistic, real-world-style mapping except by taking small steps, like this? I have certainly done my share of copy/pasting identical buildings. I try to clean things up later, introducing irregularities, rearranging things, etc. Anyway, I think Tárrases doesn't look too bad, after all is said and done.

As criticism, I could question the usefulness of putting it in a video online, and I definitely agree with @TheHolyEpicpenguin that we need users posting about OGF to the wider world to be much more clear about explain what OGF is (and is NOT, i.e., it's not for gamers).

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Comment from CartographerKing on 19 December 2017 at 13:57

Yes. That is what I do usually, I frame out the buildings and then change the size. Thank you. :D

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Comment from Myrcia on 19 December 2017 at 21:18

I don't have a problem with the mapping in and of itself, especially not as a learning process. I often do just as Luciano describes.

My issue was with this being posted on YouTube as an example of good practice mapping. I just think if we were to produce YouTube videos it should showcase better practice than this.

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Comment from LemonKing on 20 December 2017 at 14:17

Certainly this is an area worth developping. I have a slightly different approach than some previous comments. I didn't watch this video as an advertisment or tutorial for OGF, but rather as a intra-OGF communication tool. Watching someone actually map something gives a totally different perspective than just discussing the mapping or watching the actual outcome. It would be interesting to see videos displaying different mapping techniques and to discuss the goods and bads in them. Such videos wouldn't need to represent quality mapping, but, if there were many of them, some chosen ones could also provide material for a promo video.

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Comment from CartographerKing on 20 December 2017 at 18:21

Ok. Ok, cool! Yes, it does give a totally different view. Different Mapping Techniques could be good, but I don't have a mic, yet, and am getting one soon. Promo video would be cool, because if you search OGF or OpenGeoFiction, you only get like 5 videos.

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Comment from Portopolis on 21 December 2017 at 14:02

I think personally, I wouldn't want OGF to be on YouTube. Their are thousands of people who like OGF style things but their are likely millions of kids and others who see OGF as a means to an end, talking to people in the real world about my OGF hobby, the ones that have shown interest have been people who would end up overwikifying and focusing more on the wiki and mapping very little. I of course told them you should try it but OGF isn't about wikipages and fictional stories, it is mapping that can be supplemented by that.

I remember that after a Youtube video was posted, either in English or something else we had tons of younger people flood the website. YouTube sadly is a lot younger than the rest of the internet and while their is nothing wrong with young people, most young people under 13-14 who haven't even taken a high school geography class and haven't hit puberty can at times "clog" the site. Legally, and emotionally I'm a child myself (17 but turning 18 soon) so I personally think their is nothing wrong with children mapping but the attitude of many children throw me off of YouTube videos. IF your video even gets a few thousand views, that could be dozens of children potentially entering the OGF space, of course a few talented mappers will come as well, it took me forever to find a website like OGF that so perfectly fits my hobby, and this website definitely needs more publicity, but with the structure, I'm even more "afraid" off YouTube trolls ruining the website, drawing phallic objects and deleting cities etcetera.

I think if we could advertise this to people who map on OSM then the ratio of already talented mappers to people willing to learn to the opposite would increase but I don't know if their is a space for OSM people to share their work.

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Comment from CartographerKing on 21 December 2017 at 16:37

Ok. Youtube are "Usually Young" people and overwikify, but don't map. Ok, yea, OGF was a good fit for my hobby to after days of searching. Yea, but people WHO like mapping could find this talented website a whole lot easier, rather then spending countless hours trying to find it.

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