OpenGeofiction
Thilo installed a wiki extension “News” that allows us to publish a “news feed” (Recent Changes log) filtered by category.
So our proposal is to move all the “in-world” news (like the highway and political news from Drevet, Vienna, Farax, etc.) to this wiki-based news feed.
To publish your article, just make a regular wiki article and at the bottom add:
[[Category:News]]
Here is an example I just made
2014 Costumbres Bridge Collapse
Following examples in wikipedia, most “news” and “current events” articles have the date (at least the year) in the title, as I did with my article.
With this category, we can make a “news window” (either embedded on our main wiki page or as a separate portal) which would be based on this test:
http://opengeofiction.net/wiki/index.php/User:Luciano/Sandbox/News
So… everybody! Make some news articles about your country in the wiki, and then maybe this weekend I will make a news window/portal.
Then we can keep these User diaries for “meta” (not “in-world”) discussion, like technical announcements, suggestions, questions about how to do things, announcements of new projects, collaborations, etc.
Later, people who like the “news” idea could also create their own news categories (for example, there could be a [[Category:KPBG]] news channel or a [[Category:WXFI]] channel), and country-specific or city-specific news portals could be created on the wiki, too.
Happy mapping
Discussion
Comment from isleño on 21 May 2015 at 03:11
This is great!
My only suggestion would be that these articles should be written in the style of wiki articles covering current events, rather than in the style of news reports coming from media outlets. Why?
First, to preserve consistency in the wiki. When you’re reading a Wikipedia article and you click a link about a bridge collapse, it takes you to the wiki article about the collapse, not a news report. You don’t expect it to take you to a news report; it would be weird if it did.
Second, to preserve the feel of the real Wikipedia. If we want our wiki to have the same feeling as the real Wikipedia, then it should follow the same general guidelines. The real Wikipedia covers current events, but in the form of wiki articles, not media reports.
Wikipedia does have an “In the news” section with newsy headlines, but all the links take you to wiki articles about the events, not actual media reports. I’d definitely like to see the same pattern followed here, if possible. I dunno… I just don’t want to see our wiki turn into some awkward mixture of wiki articles and news reports all jumbled together…
isleño
Comment from Luciano on 21 May 2015 at 03:28
@Isleño - In principle I agree. However, clearly there is demand for something like a “news-style” feed on the part on some users, and our platform is limited. If one were ambitious, one could create a separate blog or something on a separate platform (such free blogging platforms are easy enough to find), however, that’s asking a lot in a technical sense from users, and it wouldn’t be well integrated with OGF (i.e. things like leaflet maps, etc.).
Creating non-wikipedia style news feeds might create a bit of dissonance. I’m not sure. But short of Thilo ambitiously installing a separate blogging host/platform on our OGF server and providing tools so that it integrates well with the existing components, I don’t see how we could easily meet this demand. The alternative is to simply deny that “news feed” functionality to users. That’s an option, but runs counter to my “live and let live” tendencies.
We already have some necessary divergence from wikipedia standards in some areas - obviously in areas like notability standards or citation standards, among others. I don’t see a problem with this. Perhaps if we adopt some standards or “style guides” regarding how a given “media outlet” article might look, to clearly differentiate from other wiki content, that could be a compromise. Another alternative would be to ask users to put “media outlet” style feeds under their user namespace (much as I have experimented with for my “bliki”).
Comment from isleño on 21 May 2015 at 04:38
True, the OGF wiki is different from the real Wikipedia in a few key ways… but I think that mixing a large number of media reports into the same space as wiki articles could make the browsing experience quite different.
Even without media reports, we could still have a “news-style” feed with newsy headlines like Wikipedia does, where the headlines link to current events wiki articles instead of media reports. Or if there is a demand for writing media reports, then maybe we could have a separate “User Diaries” page called “World News” or something, with a cool newsy looking header or something? That might feel more realistic than news reports that look like wiki articles. I don’t know… I don’t want to be difficult though, haha. Your creation, your call. :-)
Comment from Luciano on 21 May 2015 at 04:48
This would be the ideal. I am just worried that it would require a level of technical support that our generous founder (Thilo) may not want to take on.
For some time now, I have actually been meditating on the idea to start some kind of “in world” blog - meaning inventing some character in the Ardisphere with an interest in cartography and culture and maps and geography, commenting on various aspects of the OGF world. But so far I have felt overwhelmed by taking on the technical challenge of setting up and supporting a separate blog with working leaflet widgets and links to OGF such that it felt “integrated” and “in-world” at the level I would want. But if one wanted to just write text articles with screenshots, it could be done quite easily, using any number of free blogging platforms.
Comment from histor on 21 May 2015 at 08:11
This and this and that – sometimes I think, people spend more time in wiki-sidings as at the real mapping of theyr land. So meanwhile in some aspects the wiki has got a self-life. First it was only a medium to talk about some important outlines of the mapping area. And yes - I also write more in the wiki as it is necessary for give an overlook for the mapping countries and towns.
O.k. - as Luciano my tendence is, “live and let live”. If people will say to the rest of the world, that 10 km of motorway is open - why not? But please not in the “user diaries”. If here three people set her news, no one scrolls down to the significant questions of the fourth.
So let us in the wiki - in gods name - have a “portal” NEWS, where everybody can write, what he will tell his collegues and what tomorrow is forgotten - may be with deleting this textes after two weeks. So in the german real wiki for this articles ever is a headline in the sense of: “This is an actuel event. This page can change”.
The OGF-wiki must not be a mirror of the real wiki, so I think. Let the OGF-wiki in a lesser standard as a “quick and dirty” medium to describe mapping features. With this I have no problems. If anybody will more - I too have no problems. But must not be.
Comment from UnSoiDisantOracle on 21 May 2015 at 13:21
I like the idea to move this info to the wiki - I must confess that I did not know the user diaries were here for several months.
I am partial to the news format - with a city as byline and recent topics of interest like infrastructure openings (or disasters!), election results, business news, human interest stories, etc.
On the wiki, it would be great if there were a news feature on the front page, maybe at the top right, shifting the featured map down a bit (the featured map would still be on the launch page, but if people are really looking for a map they should be on the main map page).
Maybe this could be a short excerpt with a link like on Wikipedia – or even just the title of the article with a link to the full article, sorted by date like a news feed
Comment from isleño on 21 May 2015 at 17:44
To be clear, no one is advocating the status quo. We’re just discussing the best way to make this change.
Most news articles in the real world don’t have interactive OSM-style maps, so for a news page I don’t think we really need to support leaflet widgets. As for linking to the OGF map and wiki, it’s obviously very easy to do. For example, I’ve just spent a few hours playing with wordpress and came up with this, which definitely feels a lot more news-like to me:
https://ognnews.wordpress.com/
Perhaps this (or something like it) could be a place for news-style reports, while the wiki could remain for wiki articles, with a news headlines section on the wiki main page as dono87 recommends, where the headlines could either link to a wiki article about the event (in wiki style, within the wiki) or to a news report (in media style, outside the wiki).
Comment from Luciano on 21 May 2015 at 22:45
@isleño That ognnews thing is pretty cool … and you prove my point that it’s not that hard to do, but I remain convinced it’s probably more than our typical users want to take on. Providing and hosting any kind of blogging platform is a step beyond just going and making your own free blog on wordpress, and that’s all I mean about it having some technical overhead if OGF were to provide a more integrated news-authoring or blogging environment.
I guess if demand isn’t too great, we could try simply to encourage those who DO want to make newsy feeds to do what you have done. Perhaps some kind of walk-through documentation? Of course, there are a lot of things where OGF needs and currently lacks good walk-through documentaiton.
Because of the specific, map-focused type of blog I had in mind for my in-world character, I still want to solve the leaflet embedding problem (i.e. a sort of generic, embeddable outside-of-OGF leaflet widget that can show the OGF maps) - for myself, not as a requirement for others - that wasn’t what I meant to imply by my statement about feeling overwhelmed by technical challenges.
@dono87 - I think your points are good, I would only add that I feel like you misunderstand the point of the “Featured Map” window. It is not there for people “looking for a map” - it is there to provide a kind of “example of what can be done here” mostly intended for non-member visitors or for users who need inspiration, and also to provide a kind of “recognition / kudos” to users for good work. Given that OGF is primarily a mapping site and tool, my personal feeling is that it should be the most prominent single object on any wiki main page.
Comment from isleño on 21 May 2015 at 23:20
Thanks, Luciano. What I was thinking with the OGN idea is that any user who wants to post news articles could sign up for a free wordpress account and then ask me to add them as a co-author for that blog. No one needs to create their own, and OGF doesn’t need to provide it or host it. All we’d need to do is link between the OGF site and the wordpress site, and anyone who wants to write news reports could do so to their hearts’ content.
That said, it looks like the “news” being added to the wiki is more or less in wiki format, so I don’t have any complaints so far. I especially like Belphenia’s “This article documents a current event” box. Very wiki-like. :-)
Comment from Luciano on 22 May 2015 at 00:26
@isleño - I think if we “set the standard” with current events wikis, most users will get on board and follow suit. There is also the fact that in the wiki, we can always tweak each other’s articles to better “wikify” them - this might be especially relevant in creating a “news feed” on the main page where there’s a lot of exposure.
With respect to news blogging - I actually hadn’t thought of the idea of a shared-authorship blog model - I wasn’t sure that was well-supported in free blogging platforms. I think what you suggest for ognnews is an excellent idea!
I just created an OGF/Ardisphere wordpress account: ruifono.wordpress.com . Perhaps Ruifono “news-in-Ingerish” can be in affiliate/partnership with OGNNews?
Comment from isleño on 22 May 2015 at 01:05
Thanks! I’ve sent an co-author invitation to wordpress user “ruifono” so you can check out how it works.
It seems that wordpress places no limit on the number of co-authors. The only barrier I’m aware of is that there’s only 3GB of media storage available… (I suspect most articles wouldn’t have any images at all, but even if each image were the size of the cruise ship—500K—we’d have room for 6,000 images before space starts to run out. I think it would be many years before we hit that, if ever.)
I posted the cruise article as user “KTV (Khaiwoon)” so perhaps the usernames/icons could correspond to the various news outlets/affiliates/partners sharing their top stories with the OGN international service. Ideally of course I’d love to see something like this as part of the OGF site, but if that’s too difficult, this might be a reasonable alternative… I don’t know. Just sort of throwing it out as a possibility, if people want to have a news site that feels “newsy.”
Comment from Luciano on 22 May 2015 at 01:21
Perhaps a “halfway” solution as far as integrating to the site might be just placing a link to OGNNews somewhere in the wiki and in the banner on the main map window. Then some kind of wiki write up on OGNNews from both an in-world perspective and, under “talk:”, from “meta” view: “how to get a free wordpress account and post your own news”.
Comment from isleño on 22 May 2015 at 01:39
Good idea. We should probably seek some feedback from Thilo, though, before pursuing this much further?
Comment from thilo on 22 May 2015 at 18:21
I’m generally in favor of trying to do as much as possible with existing infrastructure. I agree that, judged solely by its merits, the OGNNews solution might be better suited as a medium for “news” style postings.
However, spreading out our efforts over multiple sites might increase the risk for each of them of dying off at some point. Moreover, it creates additional admin workload (which of course in this case wouldn’t be my problem, since I’d simply stay out of it). Also, additional effort would be needed to even make people aware of it.
That doesn’t mean I’m strongly against it, I’d just advise to avoid it unless absolutely necessary. Also, I’m with histor in that our wiki doesn’t have to be exactly Wikipedia-like in all regards.
Comment from isleño on 22 May 2015 at 20:51
Thanks, Thilo… I agree it would be ideal to have all this on the OGF site, if it were feasible. I’m assuming it’s not.
As for the points you raise: I would make all the admins here co-admins at OGNNews, not to share any “workload,” but simply to reduce the likelihood of it dying off. As for workload, the admin work there is virtually nothing compared to the OGF map or wiki — the only task is to type in a new user’s wordpress name when they request to join. As for making people aware of the news blog, Luciano suggested simply adding “News” to the OGF top menu bar.
I don’t think our wiki has to be exactly Wikipedia-like in all regards, but I do think that with thoughtful guidelines it can grow into a powerful piece of artwork in its own right, just like the OGF map… as a way to immerse oneself in this world and imagine it as being real. I also feel that OGNNews, because it looks and feels like a news site, has the potential to become a similarly powerful immersive experience from an entirely different angle.
That said, I wouldn’t want to start something like this without your support. I have another article ready to post there, but after that I’ll hold off.
Comment from thilo on 23 May 2015 at 18:54
As I said, I’m not against it, just somewhat skeptical if it’s a good idea. OTOH, I can see the immersion argument. I can create a menu bar link, but IMO it should be named something other than “News”, which I’d consider misleading, since none of the other top menu items has an “in-wold” meaning. Note also, that on several occasions, people where not aware of this forum for a while, despite “User Diaries” having always been present in the top menu.
Comment from isleño on 23 May 2015 at 23:15
Hm… I don’t know, maybe it could be listed as “OGNNEWS” or something?
If you’re still not really convinced if this is a good idea, then we could always hold off and see how the wiki news feeds go. It’s up to you. The OGN site is basically up and running at this point, so it can be your decision if/when you want to link to it.
Comment from Luciano on 24 May 2015 at 04:03
I actually have a lot of sympathy for isleño’s idea to keep the wiki as wiki-like as possible. My main thought about putting News in a News category on the wiki is about best using our limited server-space. Thilo also raises the issue of not wanting our project to get too “spread out,” which is relevant.
I have also been thinking of another issue related to “non-wiki” content, which is Sarepava’s recent suggestion to compile some folklore stories from various OGF countries.
If it were “real world” folklore, the texts themselves would live out on the internet somewhere, maybe in an environment like wikisource. But our situation is different, since our world is narrowly bounded by the server-space it inhabits.
Thus I think it would be cool to also use our wiki space to host the actual stories people submit. Just as I suggested that news articles could be categorized as [[Category:News]], so we could categorize these types of source texts as [[Category:Source]].
Now here’s my suggestion, to respect the integrity of the wiki-format. “Articles” on the wiki that DON’T follow the expected “wikipedia” style should be hosted in the individual user’s User namespace.
I already use my user namespace extensively for my sandbox activities, and for my stagnant “bliki.” There’s no limition on the ways in which such User namespace-based “pseudonamespaces” can be extended.
Categorization continues to work, but materials in the User namespace don’t appear in the “random article” listings, for example. And the “Special:RecentChanges” can always be filtered on whatever namespace you want. If you don’t want to see newsy articles in the User namespace, you can hide it. Meanwhile, a “news feed” could be set up to ONLY see the User namespace. Likewise, a “source feed” could show only [[Category:Source]]. Etc.
I moved my 2014 Costumbres news article to my namespace, for example, and then changed the filter on my news-feed test so it only shows articles in the User namespace:
http://opengeofiction.net/wiki/index.php/User:Luciano/News/2014_Costumbres_Bridge_Collapse
http://opengeofiction.net/wiki/index.php/User:Luciano/Sandbox/User-Based-News
Comment from Luciano on 25 May 2015 at 04:06
Working with iBallistic, I made him a wiki-based newsfeed in his user namespace and added all his old User Diaries articles to it.
It’s not perfect but it captures the idea, more or less.
http://opengeofiction.net/wiki/index.php/User:IBallasticwolf2/WXFI-News
These articles do not show up in a “random article” surfing of the wiki (because they’re in the user namespace) but they can be reached by anyone who knows they’re there, or from the WXFI article. In our current RecentChanges page they show up, of course. But as this site grows I assume most “power users” will be filtering their RecentChanges. We could maybe change the “public-facing” recent changes page so that it filters out User namespaces, making them semi-private, if we wanted to change how visible these types of articles were.