OpenGeofiction
What do i do when a road reaches another country? Do i just leave it or do i build a Border Custom and make it go like 1/10th of a Kiloliter over the border and just stop? Do I ask the other Countrys Owner what to do, and if so what if its unclaimed?
Discussion
Comment from wangi on 5 February 2016 at 00:06
Take it to the border, or just after. If you’ve a neighbour then of course talk to them, everything else based on that.
Comment from joschi81 on 5 February 2016 at 06:53
I’d suggest that if the territory is unclaimed you can even go a bit further into the other territory, maybe even 30 to 50 km, proposing how the road could continue (also depening on the type of topography that you imagine for the border region). Normally, of course, drawing in unclaimed territory is not allowed in OGF, but in this case I think this rule can be “softened” a bit.
With this strategy, you can show to a future owner of the territory what your idea of the border region is. But keep in mind that you can’t force the future owner to “use” what you have started at the border of his territory. You may try to convince him, but maybe he has other ideas. So only do this in a rough way, don’t start drawing details at the other side of the border.
Happ mapping! joschi81
Comment from isleño on 5 February 2016 at 07:56
This may be the first time I’ve ever disagreed with joschi81 (!!!) but I would not suggest drawing roads into unclaimed territories.
Much of our world has far too many motorways already. If users are allowed to extend their motorways into unclaimed territories, even only a few kilometers, that encourages whoever eventually acquires the territory to continue and expand the motorway net at the same density. Sure, they could delete the motorways, but most people will just take the suggestion and continue it. I don’t think that’s something we want to encourage.
With that in mind, I’d actually give the opposite advice:
Motorways are hugely expensive. So build motorways only where the demand is high enough to justify the cost. If you build a big city right on your border — a city that needs a motorway — then sure, build your motorway right up to the border. But in a case where there’s nothing much on your side of the border (and nothing whatsoever on the other side) then it’s hard to justify the cost of building a motorway into that area at all. In that case, stop your motorway at the last big city, or wherever the demand ceases to exist. Don’t even build a motorway to the border, let alone across it.
Once you have a neighbor, then the two of you can decide whether there’s enough demand to justify the expense of constructing a motorway between the two countries. Maybe there will be, maybe there won’t be. But until then, I don’t think we should encourage the spread of more motorways…
Comment from Ernestpkirby on 5 February 2016 at 18:48
Now @mikelatham, Isleno is definitely right in your case, if your neighbor is unclaimed it honestly might be a good idea to avoid the area altogether- perhaps even beyond just roadways- you may want to focus developments away from the other nations to begin with if those neighbors are unclaimed and just focus on areas near water or where features in your country could be a reason for density.
However, I suppose this is a similar question brought up by Mikelethams, @isleno- I agree in some ways, most even- and understand what you are saying, but are you saying we should try to minimize motorways specifically or all major trunk roads? And technically wouldn’t that also mean minimizing rail and other infrastructure too?
We have recently made a free trade agreement between Nature, Freedemia and Narghana. However, as much as I hate to say it as an advocate of green building, sustainability and public transit, unless literally everything becomes air travel, which I want to avoid (I only know of one major airport in Narghana anyway) the current coastal motorway/trunk route would be necessary for the survival of the connections between the nations.
There’s only one rail connection, which I haven’t even been able to finish yet, and due to geography there’s only two major places where anything (even rail) make sense, and that is at the TW-01/U-10 south of Kenworthsburgh and at the U-99/CR-03 near Savennahsburgh. While there is obviously much more density near the U-99/CR-03 at the eastern end of the border, the U-10/TW-01, though far less dense, connects Quentinsburgh, Graham City, what I hope to become Kenworthsburgh, Bejuco City and acts as the only convenient connection to Narghana City (with the other option being make drivers drive all the way out from Quentinsburgh on the U-4 to the U-99 towards Savvenahsburgh, then all the way down to Narghana City, a drive that is approximately four to five times longer.)
It seems like perhaps while they are generally related, density should not completely be equated with demand. A lot of times geography will only allow important roadways and railways to be built in a location with less density, as is the case with the Freedemian border region. I would say if you have no neighbor, don’t expand to the border, like you said, @isleno; however, if you do need a strong connection to an existing neighbor, and they agree to it and it makes, maybe use a trunk road? In my case anything less would basically kill trade and destroy connections.
Now the Omniville freeway is definitely too much for the lack of proper well mapped development there, but that would have to be an admin forced thing, as I was not responsible for the road through Omniville itself.
Comment from histor on 5 February 2016 at 20:08
Sure if you have strong connection with a neighbour, there can be a motorway across the boundary (as in real life). But with isleño I think, you better avoid a motorway across the boundary in an empty area.
Comment from joschi81 on 5 February 2016 at 20:40
Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t see we’re actually talking about motorways. Reduce what I said to primary roads (maximum). I still think that it’s a good principle for “normal” roads, but as there’s a disagreement here and the OGF rule is “no edits outside your own territory”, you better stick to that. But I agree: avoid building too many trunk roads or motorways, especially when it comes to border crossings.
Comment from Easky30 on 5 February 2016 at 22:02
Belphenia & Orinoco have many Motorway & Primary Road border crossings. I’m not sure if its an OGF record. I think we just like to draw the border crossing stations. The Three Borders area gets pretty busy wit border crossings. http://opengeofiction.net/#map=14/37.7513/135.8109
Comment from isleño on 5 February 2016 at 22:25
@joschi81 — well, I was kind of assuming. Mikelatham had just drawn a motorway to the edge of his country, so I figured that’s what he was asking about.
@Ernestpcosby — There are plenty of situations where two countries are connected by motorway, so that’s certainly fine if you have a lot of trade and travel between the two.
(In fact, there are even some cases where it makes more sense for a motorway to link to an important neighbor than to connect parts of your own country. Canada for example has several motorways that connect to the US, but there’s no motorway that runs all the way across Canada.)
So I’m not trying to say that cross-border motorways, or even motorways in general, should always or absolutely be minimized.
I think the best way I can explain it is: in order to make a realistic motorway network, it’s helpful to imagine that you’re dealing with a limited budget. You need to make tough decisions about which routes (or parts of routes) get upgraded to motorway, and which don’t. As for how limited the motorway budget is, it depends on a lot of factors: the country’s population, its wealth, its level of taxation, its reliance on car travel, its other budget priorities, etc. So those are things only you can judge. If you have more budget, then of course you can do more, and that’s fine.
But I think a good general rule of thumb is that we can’t build all the motorways we want. Keeping that in mind, while picking and choosing which routes are most important, I think is a good way to generate a realistic motorway network.
Comment from Mikelatham on 6 February 2016 at 01:21
The Motorway i thought should end at the border, and become a Main Road
Comment from Pawl on 6 February 2016 at 07:50
It should not become a main road on the other side of the border. As I see it, the “do not map outside your own territory” rules applies to everything.
In any case, I’m not sure that it makes sense to map a road to an unclaimed border, since you can’t know what’s on the other side or where the road is going. A future owner might put a huge lake or something right directly in the path of your road!
Comment from histor on 6 February 2016 at 12:07
“A future owner might put a huge lake or something right directly in the path of your road!”
Indeed, that can do a future user. But I think, that is no friendly action. If someone claims a new land with neighbours, who had drawn roads and rails to the boundary, it is a constructive action, to continue this offer. Or if not, to speak with the neighbour.
The rule is, to stop at the frontier. But if both users do so, there will be a gap in the road or rail. Therefore I think you can draw over the boundary some meters (means - only a short piece of road or rail). 100 me may be enought.
Comment from No Way on 11 February 2016 at 18:37
I just noticed the proliferation of motorways across the globe. I didn’t even think about evaluating this prior to claiming my territory. I think I can work one of the motorways that was extended into past the border. The others I am not so sure.