OpenGeofiction
This month I’ve been working on outer Dunwic, some farm land but also the satellite eards (boroughs) of Washinburh and Burdwic.
Washinburh - http://opengeofiction.net/#map=16/56.3564/19.2950
Universitet Washinburh - http://opengeofiction.net/#map=17/56.35943/19.30157
Burdwic - http://opengeofiction.net/#map=17/56.34238/19.18348
I think the Dunwic urban area is starting to make sense now, to feel like a real and full city and not just a collection of half-finished neighbourhoods. I am always interested to know what people think, in particular any constructive criticism.
Discussion
Comment from Gubble on 22 November 2016 at 22:32
Your university and Burdwic look fantastic. I love the detail with each tree individually mapped as well as the traffic signals and bicycle parking places and everything. Fantastic! I agree, it is starting to look like a real city. My only critique would be that it is a bit odd for your train line to go around the outside of the city before going into the middle. Normally, they radiate out in a fairly direct line (the stations at Burdwic and Harnham seem most odd).
Comment from Myrcia on 22 November 2016 at 22:41
@MrOobling Thank you for the feedback! I agree that the railway lines are somewhat idiosyncratic but I didn’t want to create a ‘perfect’ planned city, there are historic reasons for the routes. To the west the canals (which were once more extensive than they are now) made it difficult for the railway to access the centre, to the east the line does head fairly directly south but the line then heading off east is quite circumspect because it was built much later and was denied permission to demolish residential areas so it heads through farmland around the city instead.
Comment from Thunderbird on 23 November 2016 at 02:44
Over the past year I’ve watched Dunwic grow and I have to say, you’ve done an amazing job, almost every section of the city has fantastic detail. It really looks like a living European city.
As far as criticism: You could smooth some of the railway curves. This one has an extremely tight radius (less than 90 meters) which would make engineers have to slow down significantly to avoid de-railing. Other than that I find very little to criticize. Great work!
I imagine the north side of the city is poorer, especially in areas like St. Brannoc and Marshfeld. I really like what you’ve done with the river too, it looks very realistic!
Comment from Sarepava on 23 November 2016 at 14:27
Dunwic is also one of my favourite cities in OGF. It is highly believable and the national culture leaps off the map vividly. I like the ‘easter eggs’ such as the streets in Fenbrig named after US presidents.
Criticisms: Still not convinced about the alignment or necessity of the new Linnbaen line in the tunnel, which doubles a tram route for most of its length with the same number of stations. Perhaps this is a very busy route that needs extra capacity, but otherwise it seems a very expensive solution to a not obvious problem.
Not sure about having three very distant ferry terminals, all of which have scale issues. Lagufesten and Hyp would be severely limited in the size of ship they could handle with the narrow channels and sharp turns at the breakwaters. In fact the entrance to Hyp would be an almost impossible manoeuvrer for even the modest size of ship that plies the Lymington-Yarmouth route in the Solent. MV Wight Light has a beam of 16m and length 62m, this would fill a quarter of Wulfric Basin and scrape the sides of the harbour mouth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Wight_Light. The Southampton-Cowes ferry MV Red Eagle with a length of 93m would struggle to fit into any of Dunwic’s ports yet would not be big enough for a voyage to Ingerland or Scandmark (although fine at St Grimbald).
A bigger question is how Dunwic came to have such great ferry traffic when it is the side of the island facing away from mainland Uletha. There are no ferries to London or Amsterdam despite them being capital cities, because the extra distance isn’t economical. Much quicker to sail to St Grimbald and drive/train about 30 miles.
There are so far no embassies in the city: Myrcia may not be a huge international power but any capital city would have them. Perhaps create a page where users can sign up to place them.
Comment from Portopolis on 23 November 2016 at 16:58
IT is a great city, the only criticism I have towards it is why it goes so quickly from city to countryside. I feel liek most cities even dense ones will have a layer of areas that has a few farms in between a few neighborhoods and gradually peters out instead of crossing the street then your in a farm. Is their a law that limits development past Outerweg?
Comment from Thunderbird on 23 November 2016 at 17:36
@Portopolis: I’m an American, but from what I’ve observed, in European cities, there is less “sprawl” than in the United States. This might be due to stricter zoning laws.
A good example of this I found is Mannheim, Germany
Even in Hamburg, Germany, one of Germany’s largest cities, there are some directions where the suburbs only last 5 to 7 kilometers before farmland becomes the main use of land.
Compare this to any city in the United States, where sprawl can continue for miles along corridors.
Since Dunwic seems to have more European influence, I find the suburbs very believable.
Comment from Yuanls on 23 November 2016 at 19:22
Some cities have designated ‘green belts’ where there are strict guidelines to what can and cannot be built. Perhaps Myrcia has the same?
Comment from eklas on 23 November 2016 at 19:32
It looks so good. And while the railroads aren’t perfect, the city still looks amazing as a whole and it inspires me a lot.
Comment from Litvania on 23 November 2016 at 20:32
I even nominated Dunwic for a featured map! And it’s there!
Comment from Portopolis on 23 November 2016 at 20:48
@Thunderbird I understand I didn’t mean in lots of sprawl but even in European cities usually their is a general feel of ok, I am definitely in the border of suburbs to rural. His city seems to go from dense urban area to rural. i was thinking something like a greenbelt that @Yuanls mentioned earlier. Miami also has the Everglades that makes the city go from city to forests real quick. I mean sort of like the edge of Dublin. osm.org/#map=12/53.3474/-6.4109
osm.org/#map=12/57.1274/-2.1842 What I mean is the smaller version of Kingswell, Portlethen and Westhill. Not as much low density sprawl but more like largish towns in the periphery that are connected to the main city but have farms between the main city and it and are still considered burbs.
Comment from wangi on 23 November 2016 at 22:01
Hah, never imagine i’d see Portlethen mentioned here. Aberdeen is a tough example - the likes of Mastrick and Sheddocksley have an abrupt change, right to the countryside. But the sheer amount of commuter towns along all the radial roads makes the city seem much larger geographically - takes a while till you’re truly out of the city. Of course the AWPR is changing all that.
Dunwic could quiet easily resemble the likes of Aberdeen.
Great thing about Dunwic is it’s so good it’s teasing out these good feedback ideas. I’ve suggestions on the airport, but will message them direct.
Comment from Thunderbird on 23 November 2016 at 22:22
@Portopolis: Ok, I see what you mean. Maybe a few more villages could be built to the east, just outside the Outerweg (unless of course there is a Greenbelt restriction)
Comment from Myrcia on 24 November 2016 at 09:44
@Thunderbird
Thanks for the feedback, I will definitely reconfigure that rail curve and probably others too. I am not an infrastructure expert so I think I need to go and look more carefully at urban rail systems and how they are laid out.
@Sarepava
Thank you so much for your really detailed feedback. I’m beginning to agree about the new Linbaen line. I might get rid of it altogether, it was one of the first things I mapped and it doesn’t make the most sense.
As for the ferries, I’m really grateful for your expertise there. I actually live in Southampton so I am quite familiar with the IOW ferries and I’m surprised by how tightly I’ve drawn my ferry ports now that I come to look back on them that’s obviously something I’ll need to re-map. I think I will re-think the ferry ports in the city, as you say it makes much more sense to have St Grimbald as the major ferry port and then just have ferries to the island of Englea and Norðurland leave from a reconfigured Hýþ Terminal.
The embassies are located here by the palace > http://opengeofiction.net/#map=18/56.32582/19.23567
@Portopolis, Thunderbird, Yuanls, wangi
So this is an interesting discussion because I have given a fair bit of thought to Dunwic’s transition from city to countryside. There is a green belt which has been in place since the 1950s which is why you see fields in places like St Brannoc and inside the Outerweg at Wórster. There are strict regulations on the density of housing in the city so that suburbs built in the 1970s and 1980s were not built as sprawl as they have been in the UK but as gridded, terraced areas. Dunwic therefore resembles much more a Dutch city than a British one on its outskirts. Look at Utrecht for example > osm.org/#map=14/52.0906/5.0258
You can see that there are no sprawling housing estates, instead there are compact neighbourhoods which are mostly contained within the motorways bounding the city. There will be commuter towns around the city but I expect these will be quite compact too.
One of the things I find most exciting about OGF is in creating a city which is not British or Dutch but something else. It is European in style but given that the OGF world doesn’t have Europe, Britain or the Netherlands it can be a combination of different styles and policies whilst still being realistic.
@Everyone
Thank you for all this feedback! It’s been incredibly useful to see where I can improve and what’s going well in Dunwic. I am very appreciative.
Comment from Sarepava on 24 November 2016 at 10:14
What are the chances of two OGF mappers living in the same city!!
Needless to say, the ports would be fine for small passenger ferries - viz the Red Jet and Hythe ferry terminal which is basically part of Town Quay marina. Of course, if the number of ports are reduced or layout amended it affects the railways too. Perhaps make the branch to Lagufesten freight-only and have the suburban lines terminate at the airport? Cut back to St Brannoc Mid?
Comment from Myrcia on 24 November 2016 at 10:22
I had no idea! There’s a few little Southampton easter eggs in Dunwic. Like Leeshór is basically just Weston Shore > http://opengeofiction.net/#map=16/56.3589/19.2140 and in one of my neighbourhoods all the streets are named after Southampton areas (but I can’t remember which one!)
Wangi has kindly offered to relocate and re-configure my airport so that will mean re-adjusting the railways quite dramatically in the north of the city anyway so that the Langufsten line becomes the airport line. Then I’ll probably just terminate the lines at St Brannoc Mid like you say and convert the port to housing.
Comment from Sarepava on 24 November 2016 at 13:22
I can see the resemblance (hopefully a nicer neighbourhood)! If you want anything Myrcian 3D modelling or 3D printing give me shout. I can make quite realistic coins.
Final thoughts: Myrcia needs an oil/gas port somewhere - Dunwic might actually be a good location as it faces the open ocean. Provided the river is dredged regularly, the Hyp terminal will be fine as is with wider entrances - it is a good natural harbour. Just rotate Wulfric Basin 90 degrees to face the mouth. My suggestion for St Brannoc would involve a seaside amusement park and aquarium, like Blackpool, but it’s up to you.
The Bus Myrcia terminal is boxed in by main roads and could be more accessible to those coming from the west on foot or bike. A bridge linking it to the St Aethelwold Cyclebaen would be a good idea. When you get round to it the city will also need all its municipal bus stops mapping and a bus depot.
Does the rail traffic justify having two railway lines out to Duccsford, a mile apart? These could be rationalised into a single line.
Comment from Myrcia on 24 November 2016 at 19:22
@Sarepava
Yes an oil and gas terminal is definitely on the cards, I wanted to try and keep it outside of Dunwic but I will have a fair amount of port space left if I rationalise my ferry services. Part of Myrcia’s history is a fairly recent discovery of offshore gas reserves so I think it would make sense to have the infrastructure for that built outside of the urban areas as it would be new.
In my experience of travelling around Europe the inter-city bus terminals tended to be in inhospitable and out-of-the-way places so I felt like the Bus Myrcia terminal was following in that tradition! Southampton’s is hardly in a prime location. I have some bus stops and a few bus garages (even some bus routes mapped) but it’s a huge project that I hope to get to at some point soon.
As for the Duccsford line I have changed that now and the Linbaen terminates at a dormitory town I’ve yet to build.
Comment from Ūdilugbulgidħū on 28 November 2016 at 20:32
I missed the main discussion, but just to say I think Myrcia is looking better and better. Wangi is doing a great job with the airport, which was the major weakness before; the city itself it looks like a real place. Some of the railway bends e.g. this one are still a bit tight. Are there lock gates missing on the Roding Canal or somewhere? The naming is fantastic. I love the paths and alleys and the green spaces and all the interesting details.
Comment from Myrcia on 28 November 2016 at 21:12
@Ūdilugbulgidħū Thank you! I could not agree more about wangi’s work, I am absolutely delighted with the new alignment and details.
I have adjusted two of the worst offending railway curves, I forgot about this one but it’s next on my list. I think there are probably lots of lock gates missing because my canal network grew very organically and may not make 100% sense. I will give it some thought.
Comment from wangi on 29 November 2016 at 23:41
Was thinking a bit more on the railways… I think tagging the Linbæn routes as railway=light_rail would improve the map.