OpenGeofiction

Routing

Posted by martinum4 on 3 January 2017 in English (English)

Hello everyone,

I'm planning to add an OSRM-based routing service to OGF, but due to the fact that a lot of people don't connect their highways with the ones of the neighboring countries there are a lot of so called "routing islands". Also there are some problems with motorways, the best are the ones that are really oneways and have proper tagging at the junctions (highway=motorway_junction), otherwise stuff like this happens: http://imgur.com/a/EVaGr [These were just random markers placed on the map, no one should feel bad/called out/blamed by these pictures] If i should test your highways in advance just leave a comment.

Kind regards

Martin

Location: Bittersheim, Neuhafen, Regierungsbezirk West-Westannex, Westannex, United Republic of Lapistan and Azurea

Comment from Luciano on 4 January 2017 at 01:59

I find the idea of applying routing functionality to OGF intriguing for the long term, but for the short term, I feel definitely contrarian.

If it turns out that routing works well in my countries, I will take that as a sign I have done things wrong. That's because roads should not be the first thing mapped in a country. Roads are not the "bones" making up the skeleton of a country - they are mere tattoos on the skin. So if the roads are well-built, when I know that things like mountains and waterways and landuses and cultural objects are not yet complete, I have put the cart before the horse and I have made a mistake. I will hope that routing does not work well in my countries.

Regardless, I wish you success on this project, and longer term, it can provide a useful tool to validate and explore the OGF map for users.

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Comment from Thunderbird on 4 January 2017 at 02:47

Contrary to what Luciano has said, I have only mapped a small amount of my country, but in a heck of a lot of detail. I think you'd definitely be able to do some routing and I would be really interested to see what it would look like! You're welcome to try this in my capital city, Patriot City.

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Comment from deltanz on 4 January 2017 at 04:26

The south of Archanta, from Triaquia to Neo Delta, has a lot of connected countries where you could try some projects like that: http://opengeofiction.net/#map=5/-52.975/138.779

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Comment from martinum4 on 4 January 2017 at 06:36

@Luciano: There is nothing wrong with that, Routing doesn't even need fancy motorways, it can use all the other roads too, it just takes the driver a bit longer to reach his destination... The main problem is that people don't create shared nodes (Nodes used by two or more different streets, where you'd place traffic lights) between two roads, for the router to change between streets there needs to be a shared node, otherwise he interprets them as going over/under each other.

Thanks for your wishes, I really hope it's going to be helpful to others

@deltranz and Thunderbird: will look later about it, right now I'm on my mobile...

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Comment from Myrcia on 4 January 2017 at 09:12

I think Dunwic could be a good place to try routing. The central area of the city is fairly complete and also quite complex and it is on an island so it is self-contained.

http://opengeofiction.net/#map=13/56.3283/19.2326

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Comment from Ernestpcosby on 4 January 2017 at 09:45

Freedemia's not ready yet unfortunately, as many of my roads are being redone as we speak and the rest are either barely fixed or still really messed up/unattached XD And slightly like Luciano was saying (but not entirely), I still have a lot to do with fixing rivers, landuse, waterways, etc, before I can fix the motorways outside Quentinsburgh. But I look forward to seeing this come to fruition!

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Comment from Sarepava on 4 January 2017 at 12:55

I added some bus routes to Kanton although they only show up in JOSM (OGF does not currently have a public transport layer). As the city is moreorless complete it would be nice to have a route planner or similar to utilise this data.

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Comment from thilo on 4 January 2017 at 16:12

I think I see next months Mapper's Challenge here ... if only the challenge master wasn't against it.

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Comment from Aces California on 4 January 2017 at 16:21

Interesting concept, I'd be happy for you to experiment using Parirakbe and surrounding towns, Chakhat and Bhunda. It's the only part of Tierajas-Verdes where the roads and such are somewhat okay. 17.0560/62.2800

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Comment from martinum4 on 4 January 2017 at 21:22

@Thunderbird yes, it works really well there :) But depending on the Speed on the trunk roads you might not want to connect them to the streets directly sometimes -29.00328/38.00311

@deltanz yes it works, but doesn't take the motorways as often as i thought it would...

@Myrcia it works just fine and even offers alternative routes :)

@Ernestpcosby yes , there are indeed some Routing islands^^

@Sarepava Maybe we should start a transport map, working on a tileserver anyway...

@thilo It's kinda the same effect as in OpenStreetMap, the fastest way to get new tags established is to render some fancy maps based on it, look at OpenRailwayMap for example (Awesome project) Also, did you plan anything for TA027? It looks like the ideal Candidate to get it's own variant of the Eurotunnel...

@Aces California It works fine there, Routing over the River via Motorway works too

In general the routing is working and i only got high loads on my server during Route preprocessing (Takes around 3 hours), the server is idling a lot, so I might rework the car profile (My plans: allow driving on toll-roads, make cars use the Motorways/Trunks more often in some cases) and publish it after that, anyone got experience in Leaflet? Someone with experience in Nominatim would be great too...

Kind regards

Martin

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Comment from Luciano on 5 January 2017 at 00:15

@thilo -

"if only the challenge master wasn't against it" - heh, I suppose my earlier comment came off a bit strongly.

Really, my biggest concern is that focusing on routing encourages users to work on roads, but an excess focus on roads is a major problem in OGF already. We have too many mappers who think mapping a country is the same thing as creating a network of roads, neglecting all other aspects of a realistic map. And my comment was partly directed at myself, since as a beginner in the Ardisphere, I was just as guilty of this road-focused mapping style as many others.

@martin (RE answer to Thunderbird RE trunk roads) - in the US and Latin America, it is VERY COMMON for trunks and other major divided roads to have direct connections to minor streets. Yes it creates hazards but it's just the way things are done. Please try to remember "all the world is not Europe".

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Comment from martinum4 on 5 January 2017 at 07:26

@Luciano: I definitely see your concerns, what should I do about it, just post the osrm-backend server, not provide any frontend/leaflet? Or would a message before you get to the routing page be enough?

I know it is really common there (wasn't that the reason for the tesla crashing into a truck?), but I think I'd rather let my inhabitants drive a little longer and more safely, at least for motorways/trunks with pretty much traffic...

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Comment from Luciano on 5 January 2017 at 12:10

@Martin - Actually, I would completely support and endorse any frontend/leaflet you can make. I love to see the way OSM apps can be extended to OGF. I like the idea of some kind of a "warning - please remember to map other things besides roads in your countries" which would be excellent as part of the landing page for such an app, but even that is up to you. My main point above is that I don't want to specifically encourage new users to go off trying to making and using routing at the neglect of other things (e.g. my monthly "challenges") - but I may even try that, in the future.

Please understand that my "voice" in these diaries is sometimes a what we call a "devil's advocate" - I intentionally take a controversial position to encourage dialogue and conversation. So I really do welcome your efforts and thank you for your contributions, any and all that you make.

Happy mapping (and routing too).

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Comment from Thunderbird on 6 January 2017 at 17:54

@martinum4: Adding to what Luciano said, it is quite common to have residential streets connect to trunk roads, (divided highways with traffic lights).

Here is an example of a divided highway that has residential streets connected to it. The streets have access only to the northbound side of the highway. Drivers pull on and off as they would out of a parking lot.

I just recently found out about leaflet, it looks like a powerful tool but I have no idea how to use it.

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