OpenGeofiction
I was wondering whether there should be an agreed name and background for the OGF equivalent of Christianity. It seems to me that the words “Christian” and “Christianity” relate to a specific religion originating in a specific Earth time and place, so we ought to have another name. It can still have a Christ (which is from the Greek for “anointed”), or Messiah or Saviour, and could be called something like Christicity, Christicism, Messianity …
Similarly, “Catholic” simply means “universal” or “all-embracing”, which is fine, but “Roman Catholic” refers to a specific city which doesn’t exist in OGF.
Could we agree on the basic origins of the religion? Where? When? Preferably similar to the Christian story, but not the same (and without getting into too much doctrinal detail!). I know there’s been some discussion on the Wiki, especially about the papacy, of which there are at least two in OGF - one in St.Richard’s (Pretany) and one in Peritan City. Whatever is agreed still leaves plenty of scope for variations, just as real-world Christianity has many different denominations and traditions.
I’m asking because, if we have an OGF equivalent to Christianity and Uletha is the OGF’s Europe-equivalent, then it would make sense for my Tircambry to follow this religion rather than its own home-grown Puritism. I’m thinking of altering my history accordingly, changing Puritism to be part of the wider Christic(?) church.
Discussion
Comment from Sarepava on 10 October 2015 at 12:38
This is something I’ve been pondering for a while. I have used the provisional names ‘Orthodoxic’ and ‘Ministerial’ in Karolia but haven’t intended these to be exact copies of real Lutheran and Orthodox churches.
There’s no reason why there couldn’t be two Popes - perhaps there was a Great Schism in history or even two separate religions that both have a Papacy.
Of course, should OGF religions be close relations of those in the real world at all? Some people, notably Belphenia, have imported religions wholesale from the real world. I’m not sure this a great idea personally, because we would need to also import all the historical and cultural context for their existence. If we adopt Judeo-Christian theology, there would need to be a ‘holy land’ and then we would need to explain how and why it spread to the wider world. On the other hand, as our countries are based on societies and structures in the real world perhaps this could work after all. Also, do folk religions play a bigger role than international superfaiths?
Comment from Pawl on 10 October 2015 at 13:32
I don’t see a problem with two Popes either (there are still at least two on Earth - Catholic and Coptic - as well as the rival Catholic popes during the medieval schisms).
I wouldn’t want to get too deep into the theology, nor to mimic Earth Christianity too closely. But since we already have popes, churches and bishops (all Christian terms), it would be good to at least agree on a common name and origin of the Church-based religion(s). The histories and variations which developed from that origin could (should?) be quite different from real-world Christianity.
Comment from Myrcia on 10 October 2015 at 14:05
I think it would be very beneficial to agree on a global Judaeo-Christian religion. I’ve been adding churches to my city on the assumption that something like Anglicanism or Protestantism exists without recall to a central Papal authority. If anyone wants to take on the mantle of the ‘Holy Land’ to develop ‘Biblical’ history that would be interesting.
Comment from histor on 10 October 2015 at 21:59
Towns and cities without churches seemed to be nacked. Therefore in the old town od a city I set a cathedrale and some churches in the suburbs. Because Latina seemed to be an catholic land there are also some lutherian churches and Zylanda an lutherian land, there are some catholic churches and I hope, the people there will live together well. Too here and there are some synagogues and few mosquees and for indigen people some temples and shrines (I choose for that the symbol for “Shinto”, because it looks good).
In a city with mixed population as Khaiwoon or in the new town of Aaby (Zylanda), you see all, what the Podlatch-editor has on his list.
This is the decorative effect of religion in mapping of towns. I do not think, that there are more thinkings necessary (for me personally).
On the other hand - if someone will bring more earnest structure in the religious life of the people in his land, anybody may do, as he/she want. But under the condition, that this is law or usial in this land and set no action for other countries.
I do not think, that two popes is a mistake - long years a “schisma” was reality. And too I think, we need no “holy land”. Go out from the idea, that some religions are there and so in your towns some churches, temples, synagogues and so on.
Comment from histor on 10 October 2015 at 22:08
@ Pawl = I think, “catholic” means the common way. It is the same greek root as in the technical word “cathode” - (Kath-odos) to “anode”.
Comment from Luciano on 10 October 2015 at 23:52
I agree with @histor that the main purpose of “religion” in OGF is that religious structures (temples, churches, etc) form a major focus of human geography. As such, we need something.
I felt uncomfortable using “real” religion in the Ardisphere, and so I created stand-ins for all the Earth-analogue religious forces in the country (I am willing to modify or link these terms in collaboration with others):
I also have invented some religions to go with my invented (not cloned from Earth) cultures:
I also borrowed former user Tamarindia’s secular religion, “Casa Búa,” because it was interesting. Since he has left OGF, I may be the only person using this concept currently - he had written quite a bit about it, perhaps some still visible in his article on the town Fronterizo.
Comment from Demuth on 11 October 2015 at 00:15
I agree with Pawl and Sarapeva that having something like Christic churches or Gautamic temples is okay. It makes sense to have religions - just don’t copy real-world religions wholesale, THAT doesn’t make sense since OGF has its own history.
Comment from Demuth on 11 October 2015 at 00:17
And Luciano wrote as I was writing so I missed his comment. But I like his religious analogs, they work for me!
Comment from Pawl on 11 October 2015 at 15:58
I like Luciano’s terms as well, and will use “Ortholic” for one of my main churches. The other main church will take over the name of my existing religion – Puritist – but it will be similar to Anglican / Episcopalean. The Cambric Ortholic Church will be mostly autonomous, so I won’t get into the details of which Papacy it comes under :)
For the moment, I’m going to call the religion “Christicism” (adjective “Christic”) and its adherents “Christicans”, but I will change them if there’s general agreement on other terms.
@Luciano, you have Metholic as a Cambric religion (analogous to Welsh Methodism, I presume), but I’m wanting the main Tircambran churches to be more episcopal than “chapel” in nature. I guess I could include a breakaway Metholic church too. Perhaps the threat of religious persecution is why Cambric Metholicans(?) emigrated to the Ardisphere in the 1700s??
@Histor: The Oxford English Dictionary gives the etymology of “Catholic” as
Greek καθολικός general, universal, < καθόλου (i.e. καθ’ ὅλου ) on the whole, in general, as a whole, generally, universally ;)
Comment from joschi81 on 11 October 2015 at 18:11
I used “Catholic”, “Protestant” for Christian churches so far. I think both words are “general” enough for not having “real world references”. As for synagoges and mosques, I haven’t found a “general” word yet and used “Jewish” (Jüdisch) and “Muslim” (Muslimisch) so far. As for religious minorities, I didn’t stumble upon that so far. I like “Hebralic” for the Jewish equivalent. But @Luciano: What’s your Muslim equivalent? I couldn’t figure out within your list.
Best regards joschi81
Comment from histor on 11 October 2015 at 18:31
@Histor: The Oxford English Dictionary gives the etymology of “Catholic” as
Greek καθολικός general, universal, < καθόλου (i.e. καθ’ ὅλου ) on the whole, in general, as a whole, generally, universally ;)
Yes, that I meam. The “cathode” is the common (general) way (from the anode or all anodes). Is the same greek root. The plot is, that the roman church has a greek word as name.
Comment from Luciano on 11 October 2015 at 22:01
@pawl - and by the way, I think the idea that the Metholic Cambrics (and other non-conformist) were seeking to found some kind of religious colony, perhaps fleeing persecution or at least pressure to conform at least originally, makes sense.
Comment from Luciano on 11 October 2015 at 22:01
@joschi81, I was calling Islam “súnica” (“sunnic”? i.e. sunni). Anyway the best reference for how I am labelling places of worship is this extract list for the Ardisphere - which I just updated:
http://opengeofiction.net/wiki/index.php/Religious_Buildings_in_the_Ardisphere
Comment from Turnsole80 on 12 October 2015 at 01:11
I’ve had a quick think for an Anglican equivalent, but i’m not too sure. Ingerlic? Inglican?
Comment from Demuth on 12 October 2015 at 06:19
Turnsole80: I like Pawl’s existing “Puritist” analog for Anglicans.
Comment from Sarepava on 12 October 2015 at 12:05
What about religious festivals, specifically dates of? Christmas is in winter because the early church wanted to swallow up pagen midwinter rites, so could it be in another season in our world? Are there ‘holy cities’ and mass pilgrimages to them?
Comment from histor on 12 October 2015 at 22:21
Christmas is in December and in the real world a friend in Blumenau / Brazil goes at the beach with his family at this time. So in real world christmas has not at every place the association with snow and Rudolph, the reindeer. Nevertheless I think, the calendar in the OGF-world is the normal gregorian (as discussed some month ago). And then winter is in December in the northern hemisphere.
Points of pilgrimage you can create at many places. In Latina to the oldest church in the land, which exist - the church of Virgen del Mayo near Cordoba as example. I think, everyone can create such targets of pilgrimage (not only for “christian” religions). On the map you will see nothing or few - only in the wiki.
Comment from Portopolis on 12 October 2015 at 23:46
I agree with Histor, also my country has no winter, as it is near the equator, we just have severe rain season and milder rain season. Their are no conventional seasons in my country as seasons do not change.
Comment from isleño on 13 October 2015 at 09:02
Just wanted to say I really like the whole spectrum of OGF religions that sound like Earth religions but aren’t exactly the same. I also really like how the fragmented multitude of OGF religions and sects seems to mirror the same kind of fragmentation in the real world.
Comment from Ūdilugbulgidħū on 14 October 2015 at 06:05
Sounds great. Almost wish there were still some religions in my country ;)
Comment from Pawl on 14 October 2015 at 09:12
After a bit more pondering, I went for “Catholic” rather than “Ortholic” in Tircambry - but I’ll change if there is a general concensus.
Puritism could be an Anglican/Episcoplean equivalent, but my Tircambran history has it start about 150+ years later than Anglicanism on Earth, and since Tircambry was not a colonizing power it would have been less likely to spread widely. But I’m happy to have it start earlier and elsewhere (Ingerland?) and be imported to Tircambry.
We do need festivals, but they don’t have to perfectly match RW ones. Christmas - if there is a Christmas - could be on December 21 (Winter solstice) rather than 25. It doesn’t need to be the biggest holiday, either : perhaps a Spring holiday (Autumn in the south) would be more significant. I like the idea of using the solstices and equinoxes, if they can be given a religious context.
Comment from Luciano on 14 October 2015 at 14:50
@Pawl “Ortholic” / “Ortólica” are not really very good terms - in fact I’d like a better alternative. They are “unnatural” since they are an arbitrary blend of “catholic” and “orthodox.” Nevertheless, I am uncomfortable using the word “Catholic” even acknowledging that it is, etymologically, a “generic” term. It is too weighted with Earth-based meaning. I am open to suggestions, and would happily adopt something historico-linguistically plausible that wasn’t the actual Earth-based term.
Comment from isleño on 14 October 2015 at 18:52
I agree with Luciano that using the exact names of Earth religions (even if they have a meaning that makes sense) might cause confusion with the Earth religion. Many people who see “Catholic” will think it’s the Catholic church on Earth, when it’s actually somewhat different. I like Ortholic, but Catholist/Catholism or something might work?
Comment from wangi on 15 October 2015 at 08:19
Katholik? Conciliarist?
Comment from Rusty on 11 July 2018 at 01:15
I ddd
Comment from Rusty on 11 July 2018 at 01:17
sorry, my previous comment was an accident, stupid tablet
Comment from Rusty on 1 August 2018 at 04:51
Hi, I like Christic, Hebralic and Orthilic, but I’m LDS (mormon). and I was thinking that we could just shave off part of The Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints, to just The Church of Latter day Saints. Also my idea fir changing the common name (Mormon) to Nornom, Just switching around some letters. My opinion doesn’t really matter, but I wanted to know what others think.