The last few months, I’ve been struggling a lot with how Trevers should look and how it has developed. Starting working on the city, I was soon encountered with the fact that river Vale (that seperates Trevers from the rest of the land in the east) doesn’t make any sense. Since I did now know any solutions at the time, I tend to just ignore it for a while and hope there would be ideas about how to fix this in the future. More than half a year later, that has not happened. Au contraire, there are even more problems like overall geography, place in history and structure all over the city. I’m getting in a downward spiral and more depressed by the look of the city week by week, which leads to slow progress, which leads to overthinking everything about the city and country in the first place.
I’m honest when saying I’m happy with some parts of the city, but for some reason it doesn’t add up at all when zooming out on the map. The island looks weird and a lot of things don’t make sense in physical geography. Starting a discussional collaboration with Refriedsushi — about which I’m very grateful and should be continued very soon — made me realise even more that some things don’t make sense. Luckily he provided me with some solutions, like making Trevers into a bunch of islands in a bay, that could later be landfilled. This looked like a good solution to me. Now, I just don’t know. It’s hard to envision the landmass as landfilled islands, especially since it is not designed that way.
But I tried to do it anyway. At first, it looks okay. Then again, I just feel like I don’t know enough about physical geography. The islands I created look weird to me. I’ve tried drawing them in a lot of ways. Of course they have to align with the history and the historic sites of the city, but when trying to make a development map of the city, I just don’t know where to start.
▲ Overlay how Trevers could look in the new situation around the time of colonisation, full image here
So I spend time in creating a history that maybe could help me out here. In history this should be the first settlement of the Ingerish colonists, but is it even plausible such a settlement to be started on one or some tiny islands in a large bay? It would probably have been a good thing if I started it from the beginning in history like some users do, developing it over time. I could do that now, but there will be so many things lost. Besides that, I have so many ideas left, but something just stops me from working on the island altogether. It’s a place that is essential for the region, but lately I’m just working on things like Fletcher and Starford, with the knowledge that should make more sense.
Eventually, I’ve yet arrived at the moment it’s just frustrating to map. I should have started everything else in the country by now, but I really want to finish this. I have to deal with it anyway. Again, there are a lot of things I like about the city that I built. But everything I try doesn’t seem to make any sense in the bigger picture. I’m doubting every decision I’d made since the start — almost two years ago.
Does anyone have had this experience too? Does anyone have any ideas how I could make any sense of the island and the city? What is the best thing to do now? I’m really lost at this point. This proves that working out things like history and geography before building are SO important.
Discussion
Comment from eklas on 25 March 2017 at 23:19
I feel you- I’m relocating and redoing my country’s capital next month because I placed it on the tip of a peninsula.
I’m in a position where I just have to let go of everything, because no matter how hard I try it just never works out.
That’s six months of work, gone.
It hurts at first and there is frustration, but I managed to numb that by eating it over and mapping in some distant rural areas.
And that’s just my advice here. DELETE. ABORT MISSION. WITHDRAW ALL YOUR INVESTMENTS, JUST LIKE SAVINGS ACCOUNTS OR RELATIONSHIPS.
In my opinion, the idea with the islands is not very realistic. Because the cities founded in colonies usually were trade hubs, and creating a trade hub on an island a few miles away from land just doesn’t feel right.
Or maybe you could just delete the weird northern branch of Ansy? Or just do the bay, but place the new Trevers on the shore and not on the island.
I wish you the best of luck and am there to help if you ever need it.
PS: Perhaps the new Trevers and Drabantia’s new capital could become sibling cities?
Comment from Luciano on 26 March 2017 at 02:16
You know, I have these kinds of crises all the time. Sometimes you’ve seen me talking about them.
Sometimes, I “fix” things and move forward. More commonly, I just go work on something else for a six months or a year, and when I come back to a problem, I have some fresh ideas.
I fully intend to redesign my capital, Villa Constitución, from the “bottom up.” Someday. There are so many things about it that I don’t like. So I will save what I like and then start over. Meanwhile, I just let it sit there - it isn’t creating any problems.
I recommend taking on a different project, rather than getting so frustrated with your current project. A change of scenery can help a lot.
Comment from Turnsole80 on 26 March 2017 at 04:50
+1 to Luciano’s comment. Sometimes some time away somewhere else and fresh perspective that comes with the effluxion of time can work wonders :)
Comment from Leowezy on 26 March 2017 at 09:43
I want to second Luciano’s comment as well, and have another quick question; if I remember correctly, Boston was used in a previous diary regarding Trevers as an example. Is there a reason you can’t connect the “founding Island” with the mainland, like it was in Boston? Perhaps move the area south of the main station 500 m or 1 km south, and make it a peninsular connected to the mainland via a strip of land on the eastern part of the southern shore (because I suppose Crystal city needs to retain a harbour area).
Comment from PortCal on 26 March 2017 at 12:44
@all That might be the best option to do. I don’t know what to do next though, I guess I will work out my country and some of it’s geographical structures first before starting on anything detailed like creating a city or working on a rural area. It’s just frustrating that there is nothing finished in the country yet.
@Leowezy that might be a solution, but won’t that look weird? There will be other islands in the east of the islands that are drawn, but I’m unsure what form they will have for now. But this might be something to consider for myself, but it will be difficult with the mouth of river Ansy, which needs a way to the sea. I guess it would look weird if I took the current Vale route for this.
What I could do is connect to the east, which still results in a peninsula, but leaving the harbour and most of the city the same. There could have been islands around the coast that were landfilled later, but Melwick would be connected to the land. The only thing to consider then, is if it’s safe from the water of the sea and floods. Although this might exceed expectation because of the safe location in the bay. I sketched the situation here.
I also thought about a city wall around Melwick. Is this common practise for colony settlements? Might this be a good idea with the situation? Just brainstorming for something here.
Comment from PortCal on 26 March 2017 at 13:00
I also did a quick sketch of how it could look with Leowezy’s idea to connect the land to the southeast here.
Comment from refried sushi on 26 March 2017 at 16:45
Ah, you ARE back PortCal.
Our collaboration page started out as an alternate take on Luciano’s JANUARY mapping challenge to collaborate with others. (There is, in my opinion, far too little critique and analysis among mappers of what we do.) Our schedules and illnesses did not align for February, and given that its now late March, perhaps its time to get back into it! PortCal I will post again soon.
We will have a more detailed version of this discussion on that page in the future I’m certain, but in the meantime I would like to point out that the fact that you think Trevers is a headache means it has great value- if it was all throwaway work, you would not feel such a need to improve and perfect it. Be frustrated, but recognize that frustration is the beginning of the refinement process and not an end to it.
Comment from yuriyhlmacof on 26 March 2017 at 17:34
I know what you feel. I have the same feeling about my current project: Puntick. A difference between our cities creation is that I thought a little bit about history everytime I mapped it… But even doing that I have a feeling that it is not exactly what i envisioned… But I like to think I did my best for now, and in the future I can always make some minor or major changes in my previous work. For example: I have redesigned Puntick Metro system at least 3 times to have a solution that seemed good to me, but as I map I start thinking it is not the best solution, yet… So I do it again.
I also agree it is a good idea to take a break and do new projects, but my strategy is that… Do and redo as times as it takes to get a solution which seams good to me. You should do what you think is better for you.
About Trevers. In a previous diary entry I gave you a sugestion about the problem you have in Trevers history, but you probably didn’t see it because I did my comment a little late -_-‘ Anyway, my suggestion starts by thinking in a different scale: you could draw a new river North of Trevers (somewhere around Ansley), and with it you would have a kind of delta of two rivers on the region. It would probably make the region a fertile area, great for settlements… And if you have a good big sized island close enought to the coast, it would make sense to build a settlement there, because the river would be a natural defense.
This quick draft is probably better to explain, because my english is terrible…
What I want to propose with this solution is basicly keeping everything as it is and to create a historical sense behind it. This model has the advantage that in the map you can have as much islands as you want and with almost every shape you want… Then, the islands could be landfilled (as you suggested) to the point they became just a couple of islands… The only restriction you have is to make a big island were Trevers/Point Melwick is located to make is plausible to have some farming(or other activities that could justify to set a colony there.
I hope I helped.
Happy mapping
Comment from kingfries on 26 March 2017 at 17:47
I feel you… Started with my capital city on the tip of a peninsula, realised after some redoing it still sucks. So now I decided to eventually map a City further West as the original capital, which then was relocated to a new futuristic City more to the east. Aaaaand I left some parts of my original city to be a University City Because I loved some things there (the fort I did or the wonderful Botanic garden which was done by Udi if I remember correctly.) So dont worry we all have these ,,Man… This place Looks awful…“-moments. I still do, I Just map along until I kinda like it. Don’t give up Happy Mapping -Kingfries
Comment from oscar2002 on 26 March 2017 at 19:07
Muchas veces me he sentido como tu, sobretodo en el desarrollo de Puerto Elisabeth que ha llegado a cambiar hasta tres o cuatro veces totalmente de forma, por problemas como la geografía o la historia previa entorno a ella. Creo que una de las mejores formas de que la inspiración vuelva es dedicar tiempo a otros proyectos. A mi personalmente observar la cartografía del mundo real en OpenStreetMap me da muchas ideas, sobretodo para pequeños emplazamientos en Puerto Elisabeth.
Buscando en OpenStreetMap por la costa de Brasil algunas ideas para la costa de Pohenicia me he encontrado con la ciudad de Santos. Si te fijas en la ciudad y tomas el oeste como norte, (puede que sólo sean ilusiones mías) los cursos de agua más o menos se parecen, por lo que desde mi punto de vista el problema es el tamaño de las islas, sobre todo la isla Ansley, y en mayor o menor medida, en su forma, que es demasiado “abombada”.
Suerte con Trevers, Oscar
Comment from BMSOUZA on 28 March 2017 at 00:04
Hehe, I think all OGF-users have crises like this usually. Last month I was asking in User Diaries about totally re-creating Itacolomi, the capital of Cariocas, my first country in OGF - and, logically, re-creating all the rest of the country after this, hehehe.
So, I started detailing Barra da Grama, in Brasonia. And now I am focused and happy with the results (not finished yet)
As Luciano said here, “a change of scenery can help a lot.”
Best regards!
Bruno Moreira