Posted by TheMapper27 on 7 July 2018 in French (Français)

What do you guys think about the West Bay Region (including Saint-Pascal) as a whole?

I have done reconstruction in the past week and i would like to have opinions.

Criticism welcome!

Location: Southern Blvd, West Bay, 00001, Pogreenia

Comment from Trombonist2003 on 8 July 2018 at 04:54

I would say that what you have is okay, but you may want to add some defining natural features first like mountains and forests. I honestly then do smaller rivers as I think about my roads and settlements after that. As for St. Pascal, the forest can be a bit more detailed and possibly have more features inside like a meadow, cliff, or hill peak.

I would also suggest editing your coastline majorly. Currently it is a bunch of sharp angles and you have incorporated your roads into it. Like before, try to make your defining natural features first. I didn't do this well in the past and it was a nightmare to try and fix it after the city was finished.

And I just saw this, but your corner stop is actually bigger than both of the embassies at embassy park nearby. Maybe this was intentional and corner stop is actually like a warehouse. Just make sure to check your scale. Trust me, all does not go well when you don't, take it from someone who has experience with it.

Good luck and happy mapping. This is my constructive feedback. You can mail me any questions or concerns.

Thanks, Zekiel

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Comment from histor on 8 July 2018 at 09:40

Why soooo long bridges to Saint Pascal? For the few people there I think a ferry is enought

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Comment from TheMapper27 on 8 July 2018 at 11:57

@histor I keep the bridge open because I hope for it to go all the way to Eshein one day. I sent a message to the user ifgus a few weeks ago but he did not reply yet. That's why after the roundabout in Saint-Pascal, the highway is marked as under construction.

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Comment from Alessa on 8 July 2018 at 15:16

I'll give some advise here. A couple things I say are probably not what you're going to want to hear, but please hear me out anyway.

  • A bridge to Saint Pascal, never mind Eshein, is probably impractical. It is going to be incredibly expensive, and the island isn't large enough to support such a large population that would merit the bridges. There are three spans right now. The longest is more than 4km in length, and one has a rather sweeping turn in it. This could easily be 100% your entire highway funding for decades. I'll use the Confederation Bridge in Canada as an example. A country as wealthy and as big as Canada might have the money to sink into the bridge (C$ 1.3 billion, two decades ago). But, PEI is far more populous than Saint Pascal would be, and that bridge still only generates an average daily traffic of 4000 vehicles. A bridge to Saint Pascal, even if the rest of your country were pretty densely populated, would probably only hit a few hundred vehicles per day. It's hardly worth the cost when a simple vehicle ferry is much more economical. And, maybe, if Saint Pascal has good public transit, maybe only a passenger ferry would be needed. Imagine no cars on that island!
  • Thus, having a road connection to Eshein is pushing the limits of verisimilitude. Your country is small and more than 9km from the nearest Eshen islet (more than 14 km from Autumnbound, which itself doesn't even connect by bridge to the mainland). Maybe @ifgus would want a connection, but it's highly unlikely to be realistic.
  • You have a potentially beautiful archipelago. I'd strongly advise you to work on the coastline and make it something special first. Then, add the beaches or rocky shoreline next. That will help you figure out how far away from the shore your streets and buildings would be. Looking here, for example, the island is quite angular and probably no more than a few meters in elevation. Smooth the coastline into a more realistic shape. Then, I'd encourage you to consider leaving that island largely natural—maybe as a park or even a sandbar. Remember that in a sea like the Gulf of Volta, waves can still easily hit 5m on a stormy day and 10m in really bad storms. Tides are exacerbated by the wind and storms, so you'll need to plan accordingly.
  • The main part of the island (where you have tagged West Bay now), is a perfect location for a city. It would also have some importance, as it faces the Eshen strait and is the last stop eastward into the open sea. It would probably be an old, historic town. Concentrate on mapping that after you have the coastline worked on. One way of doing it might be some type of Romantish (think ancient Roman) settlement. After all, you're halfway in between Darcodia/Ispelia and Mauretia… both of which have Romantish settlements and influences. It's not the only option, but it gives you something to think about.
  • This brings me to a challenge for you to consider: think about creating your own culture that would be unique. What language/people/religion/etc. would you use that isn't based off a real-world one. It would be a clever way to make your country historically and culturally more important. Just throwing that out there. If you want to talk more about this, I'm happy to help.
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Comment from TheMapper27 on 8 July 2018 at 20:05

Thankfully for you, I have planned (and some, already made) changes. The car ferry has already been built from West Bay to Saint-Pascal, and if @ifgus says yes, could be extended to Autumnbound and possibly New Tyrrin. An inter-capital car ferry would be great and VERY economically benificial for both Eshein and Skalenia.

As for coastlines and natural features, in iD, i have tried all possible techniques but they don't work.

For West Bay to be "historic", I know that historic cities and towns have a certain street layout, but i never mastered it.

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Comment from Alessa on 8 July 2018 at 23:45

@TheMapper27: I'm not sure what you mean by "thankfully for you," but I'll assume it means you agreed instead of being snarky. I agree that a car ferry connection between your capital and New Tyrrin would be an economic positive for your country. We'll see if Ifgus accepts.

Now, it is easy to edit coastlines in iD. Here's the easiest way to do it: the circles along the way are the nodes, which can easily be moved by dragging them around. Next, you'll notice that there are little triangles (like arrows) half way in between any two nodes on a line. If you double-click the triangle, you get a new node right in that spot. If you click-and-drag the triangle, you get a new node wherever you want to place it. To work with coastlines in iD, use this trick to make things smoother and more natural looking. It's going to take patience, so don't be afraid of the time it will take. Also, keep in mind that once you upload a change to coastline, it could be as much as an hour before it renders again on the map. But, the good thing is, in iD the coastline as you changed it will still be there! So, you can keep working even while the map is rendering the new stuff.

All other natural features can be done just the same way as coastlines. Draw the areas as you want them. If you need to add nodes, just click on the triangles and do the trick I mentioned above.

I hope this helps!

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Comment from TheMapper27 on 9 July 2018 at 12:17

But when I do the triangles (double-click), it zooms in. For some reason i try to move the nodes but it pans instead. If it worked, I could have probably been done with this by now.

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Comment from Alessa on 9 July 2018 at 14:18

When you hover over the triangles, your cursor should change to an arrow and a plus symbol. That's how you know that you can grab the triangles. So, try it. Hover over the triangles. Did the cursor change? If so, click (hold the click) and drag the triangle to wherever you want it. If you're not right on top of the triangle, yes it will only pan. Don't worry about the double-click, just try to move the triangles around (which creates new nodes). The same goes for the nodes themselves. If you're not right atop it, you will only pan. The cursor should change when you're atop the node to be a box with a circle inside it.

As a note, if you're using a touch-screen to do this, it will not work right.

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Comment from TheMapper27 on 9 July 2018 at 17:48

Sadly, I am using a touchscreen and it's my only mapping tool. :(

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Comment from Alessa on 10 July 2018 at 02:48

My suggestion, then, would be to either (1) find a way to use a touchpad/trackpad or a mouse for some of these things to make your country look realistic or (2) learn how to break and connect lines so you can make new lines with what you want and then merge them into existing ones.

If it is impossible to even move a node, then I'm unfortunately not sure how you are going to even make the necessary adjustments that have been suggested already.

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Comment from TheMapper27 on 10 July 2018 at 14:44

I only have a touchscreen (tablet). It's not compatible with a mouse, thus i can't move a node. The only thing i can do is modify, create and delete.

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