OpenGeofiction
Hello everyone, I recently started to add some platforms to the stations of my small local rail network(still in Commonia) and I encountered a small problem: railway platforms rendering above buildings, which I placed around the station for testing purposes. This is not a problem with stations above ground, but gets in the way if you decide to have your main railway line running underneath the city center. I know lots of people get around this with metros by having only one line representing both tracks, but that looks out of place if the rest of your line is above ground and mostly has two tracks.
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Discussion
Comment from Sarepava on 30 December 2015 at 00:16
It does appear that platforms, and railway lines in general cannot be shown below buildings, although they will go below roads and can be shown in tunnel. This may be deliberate as if a building covered the entire platform you wouldn’t see it at all. You could try altering the layers of the respective objects as shown in the examples below. Platforms are -1, buildings 1 or something. It is standard OSM practice to show not only platforms, but also stairs and subterranean corridors and rooms in metro stations as these are useful to the traveller, so don’t feel you are going against the rules here.
Mostrakago, Arataran (need to alter the subway track layer in this city still very much under construction, but the platforms are correct): http://new.opengeofiction.net/#map=17/-17.91537/143.32975
Säntjana, Karolia: http://new.opengeofiction.net/#map=16/50.8986/111.5440
Comment from Luciano on 30 December 2015 at 00:41
In general the main OSM render style doesn’t seem to recognize layers on platforms (well, not on platforms detailed as area=yes), but as Sarepava said, if underground platforms rendered underground, they wouldn’t show on the map at all in most built-up areas, so it it’s maybe not a bug but rather a feature.
The issue looks weird on maps - I remember feeling very puzzled when I first looked at, e.g. the Warsaw main train station (platforms underground) on OSM. Most places avoid the problem by simply not mapping platforms (glancing at Paris and New York, I don’t see many platforms drawn), but that seems like an uninteresting and unuseful solution.
So far I have taken the following approach: “map accurately to as I imagine the platforms to actually be laid out (i.e. with correct layer tags on platforms, tracks, buildings, etc.) and hope the standard render eventually learns to handle it well.” It looks weird - see the 50x170 station in Villa Constitución to see platforms on different layers “intersecting” … but I guess I can live with that.
Comment from histor on 30 December 2015 at 02:00
As Luciano has written, the level-rendering of platforms is not perfect in OSM (and so in OGF). May be in the future this will work better, so it is not wrong, to set a layer-tag.
Comment from _zM on 30 December 2015 at 08:28
That seems to explain it, thanks. I will keep the platforms
Comment from Leowezy on 30 December 2015 at 17:18
To add another example to the list of horrible renderings, this is how most major metro stations in Pyingshum look like on the map… :
http://www.opengeofiction.net/#map=19/36.43127/119.29629
Comment from histor on 30 December 2015 at 23:27
@ Leowezy = Try to avoid this passenger-areas (area=yes and pedestrian). This areas I let free. So you can see the tracks of your lines. It is clear = no house, no street, no park, no grass can only mean free space to go there. Some tags of OGF must not be used, some make the map only crowded.
You set the platforms in your station in “spanish” way (out of the train in the middle, in the train from outer platforms). I think, the platform in the middle is very broad (10 m or so). And 5 m for the outer is a lot of place.
Comment from histor on 30 December 2015 at 23:44
@ Leowezy (2) = your platforms are ca. 85 m long. This allows only a train of 5 wagons each 17 m or of 6 wagons each 14 m. Why not a platform of 136 m for 8 wagons each 17 m or a platform of 124 m for 8 wagons each 15.5 m?
In Hamburg /Germany they had some trouble, because the platform of the old lines are only for 6 wagons (84 m). Newer lines since the 1950ies has platforms for 8 wagons (112m). The platforms are some meters longer as the trains.
Comment from _zM on 31 December 2015 at 09:18
@histor: I live near Berlin/Germany, close to 2 S-Bahn stations. Both are 120 m long, which is the standard around here for S-Bahn stations. They do not have many passengers, but the platforms are 10 m wide anyways. I think Leo’s platforms are ok.
Comment from _zM on 31 December 2015 at 10:17
Not 120 m, I meant 150 m.
Comment from Leowezy on 31 December 2015 at 13:27
@histor regarding the pedestrian areas, I think you might be right about the question whether they are meaningful to tag separately or just leave them as a blank space on the map. Next time I map such an object I will reconsider it. About the platforms, as far as I’m aware they should be exactly 100,45 m long (used the measurement tool in JOSM). I’m not really concerned about the carriage configuration, I just thought that ruffly 100m would be a good lenght for a high-frequency metro network. The S-Bahn ring and far-distance railway platforms have different lengths of course. Also, 9m might be a bit wide for some underground platforms, but unless I find a way of replacing the ~few hundreds of platforms all at once I can’t be bothered to alter that manually xD
You only got one thing wrong; I mapped all subway lines in a way, that one “line” represents two tracks. On local stops you therefore have one platform on each side, for entering as well as exiting. The station I showed above is a “Norikichezi”, since it is also served by the express service. Every metro line has one local and one express line, each with 2 tracks. On these Express stations, the local line stops parallel to the express line, and the 4 tracks share a a total of 3 platforms.
I hope that makes sense; to be honest, the platform layout is mostly only supposed to guide understanding in regards to what line stops where, there might be a more effective station layout in regards to actual passenger flow.
Comment from histor on 31 December 2015 at 14:09
Around 120 - 130 m can be a good lenght for modern subway-line (8 wagons) and 150 m a comfortable lenght for platforms of a “S-Bahn” (for longer trains may be 180 m). In Latina I set 150 m for the metro-platforms.
If the express tracks are in the middle, at the local stations are simply the platforms at each local track aside. At the express-stations the express tracks stay in the middle and the local tracks make curves around the platfoms, laying in each direction between the local-tracks and the express-track for easy interchange between express/local. For my feeling the best layout, because the express-tracks always go straight and the waiting persons at the local stations are not touched of the express-trains. See here in Porto Colon [http://opengeofiction.net/#map=16/-13.1469/48.8044]
How broad a platform? A question forst of the traffic and second where the steps are. If the steps are at the end of the platforn, then the platform can be smaller. If the steps end in the middle of the platform they logical must be broader.
Comment from _zM on 31 December 2015 at 14:37
Another few useful values: Streetcars between 25 and 50 m, light rail between 45 and 80 m, rural railway platforms 80-100 m, metros 80(extreme case)-160 m,S-Bahn 120-180 m, commuter rail 150-200m, standard railway platforms 150 - 250 m, high speed rail 300-500 m.
Comment from _zM on 31 December 2015 at 14:40
Platform width depends on the number of trains per hour and passengers per hour. More passengers and less trains, wider platform. Less passengers and more trains, less wide platform.
Comment from histor on 31 December 2015 at 14:49
In Germany streetcars can be long 75 m by law.
Comment from _zM on 31 December 2015 at 15:23
I know. But the only systems using 50+ m long trains are Stadtbahn