OpenGeofiction
Okay, so it looks like now AR901 really is coming along. We do need to name it though.
I’ve given thought to completely re-doing the highway numbering, since it never was consistent to begin with. I’d like to replace the current “M” numbers with a prefix for “interprefecture” such as “I” or maybe “IP” or even “IM”. The non-freeway/motorway roads which connect between prefectures could get a different prefix (to be decided), with the roads running entirely within one prefecture (“state”) given a prefix specific to that prefecture.
I’m starting to run out of good prefecture and city names. I’m going for non-English/Ingerish where I can think of something good (Ville des Lapins being the first example so far, maybe second if you’re willing to count Poltergeist Point as being at least German-influenced). Quite a few other mappers are still English-/Ingerish-heavy on the naming, though.
I am good at mapping, not so good at coming up with history. I’ve done a lot for someone who had originally planned to just stick to Frogtown and the immediate area…
Discussion
Comment from isleño on 13 October 2015 at 08:45
Because AR901 is a blue territory, it attracts a lot of new users, which means there’s tons of inconsistency — it goes way beyond just the highway numbering. It looks like people have been drawing motorways 500 meters across, inexplicable roads everywhere without any destinations in mind, random names that seem to come from every corner of the world…
At this point, I think what would help AR901 most would be a really beautiful completed prefecture — just one prefecture with spectacularly realistic detail that looks like it came straight out of OSM. A prefecture where everything is at the proper scale; where urban and rural areas are fully developed; where every corner is full of forests and fields, towns and villages, walking paths and country lanes; and where a consistent pattern of names (whatever it may be) gives the area a distinct and memorable flavor. Such a prefecture would be a great model for new users in AR901 to learn from and would inspire them to put the same level of effort into mapping other parts of the country.
So rather than worrying about the big picture right now (naming all the prefectures, numbering all the roads, etc) I’d suggest returning to a narrow focus and using your talents to carefully craft one really superbly complete prefecture, to show new users how it’s done and encourage them to aim for the same high quality in their own mapping.
Comment from Luciano on 14 October 2015 at 14:55
I’m actually a little bit surprised, after the long discussion thread a few months ago, that this country AR901 still doesn’t have a name. I thought someone would jump in and just make a decision.
Anyway, I’m not entirely of the same mind as isleño with respect to “big picture” vs “details.” I think one reason people are so careful and respectful in Gobrassanya (another blue country that is quite successful) is not because there are detailed areas but because there is a consistency and clear geographic “logic” across the whole country. People see that and try (mostly) to fit in. This argues in favor of working on the “big picture” stuff first, and waiting on trying to focus on a single prefecture.
Comment from isleño on 14 October 2015 at 18:33
I think my opinion is a bit more complicated than just “big picture” vs “details.” I think “big picture” stuff is good when it’s done in a logical way that helps to build a solid, coherent framework for the rest of the country. But AR901, in its current state, is full of highways to nowhere and names that don’t form a coherent pattern. Numbering those highways and naming prefectures after those cities only helps to solidify and embed the disorder there.
In the absence of a major cleanup and group effort to lay a more logical foundation, I think the best move in this case is to use a smaller area to at least establish a high standard of detail and quality for the country.
This can be hugely important. In fact, before there was any “big picture” in Gobrassanya, there was only Khaiwoon: a very small and detailed area, which helped set the tone for Gobrassanya. People saw what was happening in Khaiwoon and tended to focus their mapping at the same scale. Very little at that time was done “top down” — many different people drew and named the districts themselves, and it was several months before the whole country was filled with districts, because people were busy focusing on smaller stuff. The geographic “logic” of the terrain was done more recently, after much of the detail had already been drawn.
In hindsight of course this wasn’t the best way. It would have been better to choose a language at the very beginning, and certainly a terrain pattern too, before so many names got placed and so many roads got drawn, but if there isn’t the will to undertake that level of “big picture” cleanup in AR901 right now, then at least establishing a great example for new users in one prefecture would be immensely valuable. Just my suggestion, though. :-)
Comment from Luciano on 14 October 2015 at 22:59
OK - perhaps I lacked the background knowledge on how Gobrassanya developed. Probably my resistance to a “finish a detailed area first” approach is because that approach is something I’m so bad at, personally, and thus I’m sympathetic to others who need a big picture to know what they want to work on. I confess that in fact I probably have never actually finished a detailed area - instead, my approach is a kind of “stepwise refinement” - sweeping across a fairly large area in small steps, trying to gradually work up greater detail.
Comment from isleño on 15 October 2015 at 07:11
Haha, your mapping may never be complete in your eyes, but the level of detail is great, some of the best anywhere, I think.
I don’t want to discourage anyone from thinking about “big picture” stuff in general. I’d just like to see “big picture” done right… and in AR901 that’s going to take a lot more work than just renumbering the highways and thinking up a few more place names.
So instead of suggesting a huge amount of “big picture” cleanup, I tried to think of what might be the next best strategy in this case, and it seemed that skquinn’s mapping talents would be ideal for inspiring new users in a focused area, similar to what we did in Khaiwoon.
But that’s just one suggestion, and maybe it isn’t a good one. If you have other ideas on how best to move forward in AR901, by all means definitely share them! I imagine skquinn would like to hear more opinions than just mine. :-)
Comment from Demuth on 15 October 2015 at 07:20
Luciano, you have some incredible detail in Villa Constitucíon! It’s definitely one of the good models that I look at when creating a city. You undoubtedly see all the shortcomings and things you want to do better ;-)
Comment from Luciano on 15 October 2015 at 23:38
@isleño @Demuth - thanks for the positive feedback. I wasn’t really implying that I thought I was doing badly - I’m quite pleased with the level of detail I’ve achieved in many parts of my map. Mostly I was commenting on the fact that I don’t ever feel finished. Villa Constitución has some awesome detail, but there are so many things I still feel need to be done, and lately I’ve been avoiding working on it because I have decided there are some serious basic scaling problems that need to be resolved somehow - the grid needs to be broken up. Chalk it up to “learn as you go.” Lately I have been focusing on my “2nd city” - Jeongto, trying to take a very slow, “historical” approach, trying to make it evolve on the map.
RE AR901 - upon further consideration, I understand isleño’s recommendation @skquinn - I think given his talents and interests that is the best route for him. But if he decides he wants to take initiative on the bigger picture, that would benefit the territory too.
Anyway, to all - happy mapping.
Comment from skquinn on 19 October 2015 at 20:04
For the time being, I have gone back and improved Frogtown and the immediate area. This doesn’t mean I won’t be editing elsewhere but taking a look back made me realize there was more unfinished work there than I thought.
Of course, Frogtown isn’t the capital, it’s just supposed to be a moderately large coastal town with one of the better beaches (one of the other better beaches being Far North Beach, which is intentionally just a bit more remote). I’ve put a lot there, and at some point I do plan to write a history of the city (and possibly others around the country).
The highways that have been drawn out (mostly my work, but some parts were drawn by other contributors) may look like “highways to nowhere” now, but the idea is that most of them will eventually have at least a few small towns or other destinations along them. I don’t remember making any 500m-wide motorways, I have done my best to make spacing as realistic as possible. if there was a place I did that, I’ll go back and realign/fix as needed to make it at least somewhat realistic.
Comment from isleño on 20 October 2015 at 06:19
My guess would be it’s mostly new users, not you. The super-wide highways can be found in a number of spots: here and here, for example. There are a lot of other scale issues going on with different objects in different places. Finding the right scale is one of hardest things for new users to learn, and blue countries are full of new users… but please don’t feel like you need to clean up after them. That’s why I suggested focusing on one area instead… because it’s more fun. :-)
(Btw, the difficulty with building roads to nowhere and figuring out the cities later is that it’s a lot harder to emerge with a realistically efficient road network that way. It’s much easier to locate the main cities first, then plan out the most efficient network to link them. But that’s a lot of work, for sure. Again, please don’t feel like you need to deal with that.)
Congrats on Frogtown, btw. It’s definitely impressive. The detail is amazing, all the buildings and everything. Top quality stuff. The only odd thing I can spot there is that almost all the city streets are marked as primary/secondary/tertiary highways. Downtown areas will typically look like that, but when you get out into residential neighborhoods, most of the streets will usually be marked as residential: LA, for example.
Anyway, feel free to focus or not, and most important of all, have fun. :-)
Comment from skquinn on 20 October 2015 at 15:00
Well as it happens, both of those were mine. I’ll fix both shortly.
After that, when I next have time I will downgrade some strets in the areas outside of downtown Frogtown (try saying that five times fast) leaving what I plan to be the true primary, secondary, and tertiary roads as such.
Comment from isleño on 20 October 2015 at 20:22
Ah, sorry about that. We all make things the wrong size from time to time, myself included. :-)
Comment from The_Cute_Chick on 20 February 2018 at 05:50
Now that there are dozens and dozens of named settlements distributed everywhere in AR901 (Rhododactylia), the problems are not “ghost highways” (as I like to call them) anymore, but the relatively decent highway system serving ghost towns with desolate streets, or just a settlement label with no evidence of a settlement.
– TCC
Comment from The_Cute_Chick on 20 February 2018 at 05:55
Now mappers have to create some “settlement evidence” which are distinct from its bare surroundings and fix the rather disproportional rural-to-urban population that exists in this big blue nation.