OpenGeofiction
Has any of you ever tried introducing trolley buses to one of your fictional cities? They are present in Eastern Europe, as well as Italy.
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If so, I’m interested in how you did that. How to visibly tag trolley wires? How do trams work in combination with them (I’ve seen the combination of both systems in Rome, Szeged and Belgrade, but I’m not sure if that’s the common practice)?
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If not, is anyone interested?
Regards
Discussion
Comment from eklas on 23 March 2017 at 21:57
I am going to! I like trolleybuses a lot because they are clean, silent and cheaper than trams. They’re definitely going to appear in the new capital I’m drawing later this spring.
I have yet to figure out how to tag them properly though. I think you’re supposed to tag the lines as roads with overhead_wire=yes (or whatever) and the stops are the same as bus? I don’t know.
Comment from eklas on 23 March 2017 at 22:04
(I somehow forgot to read the other half of your question.)
I think the wires are not rendered in any style at the moment.
And trolleybuses along trams actually are common practice at least here in the Czech Republic- out of six cities with a tram network, three (Pilsen, Brno, Ostrava) have a trolleybus one too. For example in Brno, the trams operate mostly in the valley, while the trolleybuses serve the hills.
Comment from BMSOUZA on 23 March 2017 at 22:13
Hey, as a “buses adicted”, I like the idea of using trolley buses too!
In Brasil, there was in cities as Recife in old times (around 1950, I supose), but in present days, only in São Paulo.
In OGF, once I think about it. But I dont know how it would renderize. If it can renderize. Well, my idea would use trolley buses in Baia Azul (Brasonia) and Markovburg (Belgravia) but I still did not create maps to both these cities, hehehe. Just to say, both will be the bigger cities in these countries, but not the capital ones.
Comment from Leowezy on 23 March 2017 at 22:26
There was a point in time where I wondered why there weren’t more trolley bus systems around, as they seemingly combine the flexibility of busses with the efficiency of a tram. Funnily enough we actually touched on this in a lecture I had at uni this semester, and there’s one crucial point one might miss out on; it’s the guiding.
With rail-based systems, the guiding is already done by the rail, that means the vehicle always follows the very same path. The collectors on top of the tram just need to be pushed upwards to always stay in touch with the wire. With trolley busses however, there need to be guiding elements along the WHOLE overhead wire that ensure the collector is fixated against the wire, even when changing lanes etc. So basically a complete secondary cabling system in addition to the actual power cable. Even more importantly, that means at intersections of trolley bus lines, there need to be switches IN the overhead cabling; just like normal rails need switches on the ground.
All of this of course is completely irrelevant for to how to map a trolley bus system; just keep in mind that in many cases, a tram system with short and flexible trams might be cheaper to build and maintain than a trolley bus system, because even though you don’t need rails, the overhead cabling is actually way more complex than with rail based systems.
Comment from tule00 on 23 March 2017 at 22:32
@eklas - I’m a huge fan of trams, but I like trolleys because sometimes they’re more practical. It’s a shame, though, that trolley wires are not visible. I usually don’t bother using tags that are not visible. Perhaps we, the OGF community, could make our own rendering for that?
Also, I was particularly referring to when trolleys and trams are in the same street/junction.
Comment from wangi on 23 March 2017 at 22:32
osm.wiki/Key:trolley_wire
Falls into the category of not visible on the default map; although loads mapped.
Comment from martinum4 on 24 March 2017 at 01:00
A lot of stuff is not rendered by maps, i feel like 95% of my mapping is not rendered. For example[in no particular order] some keys: turn:lanes; frequency, voltage, is_in, addr:, ref name:, lanes, wheelchair, incline, operator, opening_hours.
I came here from OSM, i try to map as good as possible over there, that heavily influenced my OGF-Tagging-Style Most of the times these tags aren’t necessarily in OGF, but it makes stuff look good in JOSM if enabled the right styles. Also some are good for nominatim.
Anyway, regarding trolley busses I’d adhere to the OSM-Standard, ask the implementer of the OSM-Transport map to include it and then set up some tileserver for that up for OGF, you kill two stones with one bird ;)
Kind regards
Martin
Comment from Sarepava on 24 March 2017 at 09:38
I think the main advantage of trolley buses, and why I would press for their reintroduction in Great Britain, is that they are zero-emission. Electricity even when generated by fossil fuels at a remote power station is far more efficient and less polluting that every vehicle carrying round its fuel and burning it. OGF would seem to have at least the same problems with climate change and resource depletion as the real world.
Other advantages are that motors, batteries and transformers can be built on the roof, under the floor or anywhere else, meaning the bus has more internal space, and can be low-floor for its entire length. Acceleration in electric vehicles is much faster than in turbocharged IC engines because 100% of torque is available at any speed. Trolley buses are also free of the sickening vibration that diesel buses have at idle.
Concerns about running independently of overhead wires in case of a diversion have been addressed on modern types by installing batteries.
Karolia will definitely use trolley buses, certainly in Känton, Fontjäna and Säntjana, and probably Vasanta, Riispere and Liivu as well.
Comment from tule00 on 24 March 2017 at 16:58
Martin, since you bother doing so many invisible tags, congratulations. I used to do that a lot, but now I’m just too lazy for that.
Comment from Nikolia on 24 March 2017 at 19:03
Belgrader here!
I commonly use our trolley buses. They are fast, relatively reliable, and all in all good part of public transportation.
However, there are problems with them. First, they tend to detach from the wires on intersections if the driver goes through wire connections too fast. Two trolley buses cannot overtake each other, so if one breaks, others can’t overtake it, unless the broken one gets disconnected. Also, in the events of power outbreak, you don’t have trolley buses. And last but not least, trolley bus wires are ugly, they kinda clog the streets, as seen on Slavija square where both trolley buses and trams (and buses) pass.
Comment from tule00 on 25 March 2017 at 18:30
I’m from Belgrade too, and I pretty much that both trams and trolleys would have much more potential if they were well taken care of. Though I don’t use trolleys very much, they are reliable when it comes to waiting time. But they could be so much better. You probably know about that one electric bus line, but if trolleys had batteries too, the problem with overtaking would be much easier to solve.
“they kinda clog the streets, as seen on Slavija square” That was exactly what I meant when I said “How do trams work in combination with them”. I know that trams and trolleys never pass on the same place, except in Slavija, which is just a junction; but I wasn’t sure if it was like that in other cities.
Comment from tule00 on 25 March 2017 at 18:34
Generally, I wanted to see how trolleys work in other places, because my country (Reeland) is supposed to be more like Germany and less like Serbia