place=neighbourhood nodes don’t seem to be visible on histor style. What to use instead of them?
OpenGeofiction
place=neighbourhood nodes don’t seem to be visible on histor style. What to use instead of them?
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Comment from histor on 18 June 2015 at 18:35
see in the wiki about “histor-style” = Landscapes
This names for areas or landscapes are useful to mark an not-administrative area. You tag the place and then the name, the place shall show.
Administrative areas have the hierarchy = Country - State - County - Suburb with the admin-levels 2 - 4 - 6 and 8. The “neighbourhood” is not set in this sequenz.
Comment from tule00 on 18 June 2015 at 19:06
So I should use place=suburb even if it is urban?
Comment from isleño on 18 June 2015 at 19:48
The unusual definition of ‘suburb’ can be confusing. It comes from OpenStreetMap:
osm.wiki/Tag:place%3Dsuburb
Comment from tule00 on 18 June 2015 at 20:40
I am not a native English speaker, but i thought like sub - urb is a place that is not urban. But in OGF it is only a matter of how it looks, and suburb looks better.
Comment from histor on 18 June 2015 at 20:56
Sub-urban = as ex-latin word so you can think, what it is. It is lesser than urban - rural or part of a urban unit as a city or greater town. As isleño wrote - in America it is not part of a town, or?
I divide my cities in administrative parts, in german called “Stadtteile” (town-parts). Herefore OSM has no exact word, so I take “suburb” as place-tag for admin-units in level “8”.
That “Stadtteile” are administrative units, no local areas or neighbourhoods or localities. O.k. - often is a administrative part of a town a formerly “suburb” or formerly independent village. So you have some difference in Europe and America = in Europe formerly “suburbs” are incorporated in the town or city around the 1870ies to 1920ies, as the towns and cities grow. So as I know in US-America the communal boundaries seemed to be more conservative.
Short said = for me is “suburb” only a tool, to create administrative parts of a city or greater town.
Comment from isleño on 18 June 2015 at 23:53
In US English, a suburb is typically a residential area near a city, where many people commute into the city to work. Administratively, a suburban area may be located outside the city, or it may have been annexed by the city (but still called a suburb), or it may have a separate municipal government of its own (such as “city”/”town”/etc).
Comment from wangi on 19 June 2015 at 01:19
tule00, i would go with what works with the default style & openstreetmap, rather than histor style. Use tags to reflect the reality, not to fit some representation
Comment from tule00 on 19 June 2015 at 08:00
histor
I also use admin level 8 for municipalities, so a few villages or one town can be one municipality, and a city is 2 or more municipalities. I was just confused, because the city centre sometimes has a name, and is not suburban but still uses place suburb. I am not from US but here in Serbia we say suburb (predgrađe) to call a village on the end of the city. ## isleño Like above, I was confused. ## wangi Histor created the histor style as a better looking version of the normal style, and here in OGF the most important thing is how it looks (e.g. Ataraxia uses admin level 2 for regional borders). I always try to fit both normal and histor style. And the suburb tag is not for a suburban area, but rather a part of the city, as histor and isleño said.
Comment from joschi81 on 21 June 2015 at 08:27
place=suburb is (still) used for any district of municipalities, no matter if located within the centre or at the edge of town. place=quarter is a better, more logical tag, but unfortunately also not used in the same way as suburb.
@tule00: “here in OGF the most important thing is how it looks”. No, that’s definetely not true. Creating a syntactically correct database (like in OSM) is more important than how it looks. This allows the OGF community to do any geographical/geospatial analysis in the same way as it’s possible in OSM. In my point of view, even in OSM, “mapping for renderers” should be completely avoided.
Ok, you can “tune” the visual output a little bit, because often there are many different (correct) mapping alternatives. Also, using some “wrong” tagging for a “nicer” output in the standard layers isn’t that problematic when the respective objects are not basically important for data analysis. But using admin_level=2 for regional borders for a nicer output? Please: Don’t!!!
Also, place=neighbourhood is important, although not included in the “official” admin levels. @histor: I don’t understand your logic here. place=locality e.g. generally is used for uninhabited places. place=neighbourhood is the subdivision of place=suburb. So I would really recommend to make place=neighbourhood visible in you nice style! (also because I am using it very often myself). see here for the place=neighbourhood description
Also @histor, there is a mistake in your admin level decription above: It is 2 - country, 4 - state, 6 - county, 8 - municipality, 9 or 10 - for official subdivisions of municipalities (“suburbs”/bairros/arrondissements/Stadtbezirke/Stadtteile…), see here
Comment from tule00 on 21 June 2015 at 09:06
Does place quarter render at all? Because I think JOSM doesn’t render it. About how it looks, here it is most important, because OGF isn’t functional, and its only purpose is making an imaginary world, and for us to see how others mapped their territories, and nobody will be damaged if e.g. some highway is tagged as trunk, but should be tagged as motorway. I don’t use admin level 2 for regions. I just said in Ataraxia there are admin level 2 borders in level 4 relations. I own only Reeland. For place neighbourhood, I am not yet sure if I can name all the small parts of cities, and is it worth it. Regards