Gharbiya, a new nation, an old faith... But how?

Posted by Liadrien on 23 September 2020 in English (English)

Hey! I've been mapping for a few days now in my first territory and i'm making steady progress, but that's (of course) not why I'm posting this. No. I'm in need of some in-world guidelines. You see, the nation of Gharbiya is a muslim nation, and thus i'm curious; is there a version of Mecca in this world? Surely, the prophet must've been enlightened somewhere? So... Where should my largest mosques be facing? Are there any other quirks to the religion in this world I should keep in mind? Which are the muslim nations of this world? Are there even any? Also; (as a bit of a sidenote) Is there already a name for a nomadic culture in the Great Helion desert? (the wiki is now even more gone than a moment ago so... Can't seem to look it up)

I'd love to have the nation of Gharbiya entwined with the world and feel truly alive. I know it's extremely early in the making, but bear with me. I'm looking for an ex-colonial overlord, or even failed attempts at earlier colonialism. Things that may lead to influences such as names of things or even structures built after foreign ideals. Such as old forts or ports. And I'd like to weave those into the nation a bit, and not just tag them on as an afterthought when the nation is more thorougly mapped. Any ideas are welcome, let's discuss in the comments!

Location: 22,356, 4,032

Comment from Lithium-Ion on 23 September 2020 at 13:47

The origin of OGF-Islam is Mazan. I doubt the Mazanic empire would have extended all the way to you, but the religion could have certainly spread.

Colonial powers could have been the Ingerish (English), Castellanese (Spanish), Franquese (French), or even Wesmandy (Other English), or perhaps Lentia (Dutch). All of these powers could have had influence in Gharbiya (which looks great so far, btw). You really have your pick with the colonialists!

I hope this helps.

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Comment from Liadrien on 23 September 2020 at 13:59

Thank you Lithium! Yes, that does help! I guess i'll be going for a Mali esque "far flung religious center on the other Side of the desert" kind of deal. We'll see how I do with colonies. But at least i now know my options. Thank you!

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Comment from Lithium-Ion on 23 September 2020 at 14:12

You're welcome! One more tip: Use JOSM! It'll be an immense help, especially considering the sheer size of your territory.

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Comment from Rustem Pasha on 23 September 2020 at 18:14

There are other possible colonialists if you want to try something unusual like Demirhanlı Devleti (Ottomans/Turkey) or Antharia (more or less Romania).

For the mosques however there is no OGF Mecca. As form of a compromise we unofficially decided that the decisive point is where real world Mecca is located (21.5N, 40E)

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Comment from Liadrien on 23 September 2020 at 18:52

Although Romanian sounds like an interesting candidate, Antharia is located extremely far away (and so is Demirhanli Devleti) making Ingerish sounds like the best candidate... Although my neigbour to the south apparently had a Franquese colonial presence... With a similair issue. So anything goes I suppose. Interesting about Mecca though... As those coordinates put you in the sea near Gianniria. It would make it easy for me though: Just point them due east. Are you the owner of Antharia? I'm trying to look it up... But you know... Wiki issues

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Comment from Rustem Pasha on 23 September 2020 at 19:06

I'm the owner of Demirhanlı Devleti, Antharia belongs to Stjur.

If you care for geographic possibilities of colonization, the most serious candidates are Ingerland (English) or Kalm (German), eventually Egani (Greek using Latin alphabet) or the Mazan itself. Strait in Dematisna is pretty limiting.

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Comment from Liadrien on 23 September 2020 at 19:26

Once more trying to look things up. Of course, geography is a part of it. But not all. And as you say Dematisna straight does make eastern nations less likely, but not impossible. What's the Demirhanlı Devleti history of colonisation and religion? I suppose having a colonial power that wouldn't try to convert the populace... Would be fitting

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Comment from Rustem Pasha on 23 September 2020 at 19:37

Well, the main Demirhan religion is Islam (Iman in OGF world) so if the native population was Islamic already conversion wouldn't be a problem. In other case they would probably allow natives to believe what they want (country still has relatively large populations of Jews, Christians and Zoroastrians) but in some periods of time the tax policies could be disturbing for non-Imani people.

Demirhan history of colonization begins in early 15th century. In terms of posessions however I can't say much as I am just starting to build the colonial empire. It's relatively hard with Turkish as main language of the country, people usually choose English, French or Spanish for they own comfort in mapping.

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Comment from Liadrien on 23 September 2020 at 20:00

Aye, I see that appeal, I certainly don't know any turkic myself, but I don't speak much arabic either. So I guess that really doesn't matter. The population would have already been Imanic (imani? Imnic?), although being rather far off it would have a relatively foreign branch of Iman, one mixed with the local beliefs of the nomadic peoples of the Helion desert. Today the nation of Gharbiya does not really tolerate other faiths.

Things I'd like though is:

  • A Relatively recent war for independence ca. 50-30 years ago
  • Most of the mountains (west and northwest inland) could never be colonised properly due to the people resisting (and the region not really being worth too much)
  • The main seat of the colony was either Yanim or a town in the bay to the far east
  • Turkish as a secondary official language in Gharbiya today (Primarily in the east)
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Comment from Rustem Pasha on 23 September 2020 at 20:12

Well, for independence in that modern period I opt for 1963. It was a year of relatively bloody (but failed) communist uprising against the monarchy and the army was engaged in fighting the communists so they couldn't focus on fighting independence movements in colonies. The other possible term is late 80s or 90s when the country went through another but smaller crisis.

Other things are totally up to you, I can only say it looks good as general plan.

Also if you are afraid of failing in implementing Turkish, we can just assume that there evolved sort of local dialect (just like Dutch evolved into Afrikaans in South Africa).

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Comment from Liadrien on 23 September 2020 at 20:27

I'd say 1963 (1382 AH) sounds like a good alternative, There's got to be time for a civil war afterwards. The local dialect sounds good. I suppose rising ideas of nationalism would have helped in the lust for independence. Upon gaining independence the ancient monarchy would have been reinstated in Gharbiya and it once more had a ruling Sultan (until the civil war). Gharbiya also has many local princes, a key element in gaining the trust of the locals would have been to bribe or otherwise convince the princes to allow the Demirhan to settle. Although the ientire country may have been an official colony, local opinion would have looked something like this.

Gharbiya colonial map

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Comment from Rustem Pasha on 23 September 2020 at 21:05

I've just looked at your general plan for Gharbiya from your user page and I must say it corelates nicely with the areas of little and high resistance. Mountainous and rural regions are usually more conservative and harder to control so it's understandable that resistance will be mostly there.

I will also have in mind the information about the princes when I will be writing the colonial history for Demirhan.

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Comment from Liadrien on 23 September 2020 at 21:30

Lovely! Demirhan would also have had great access to the natural resources of Gharbiya, primarily oil as cobalt and uranium would be more modern resources. Although copper and diamonds are also in descent supply. Gold was once rumored to exist in the country's interior but none have ever been found.

How did Demirhan rule the colony? Did they have a permanent garrison? Were the Gharic brought back to fight for Demirhan back in Uletha?

What was the reason for the colony? The natural resources? Nationalistic ideas of expansion? A port for holdings further away? What was the ambition with the Demirhan presence in Gharbiya?

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Comment from Rustem Pasha on 23 September 2020 at 21:46

First thing to understand Demirhan goals is to know that their sultans until early 19th century believed that they are chosen to rule over Imani world as caliphs (it remained part of official sultan title up to 1916) so probably they had seen the colonization in this particular case as part of their destiny. Gharbiya was probably seen as important holding to allow further colonization of Tarephia.

In colonized or conquered lands they established provinces (eyalets) under the semi-autonomous rule of the governor, however there was also jenissary garrison which only reason to be was to keep the governor loyal to sultan.To control the locals they established garrisons under the governor rule, composed from people from other parts of their empire so at the moment we can assume that the core of garrison were coming from the mainland, "metropolitan" part of the country.

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Comment from Rustem Pasha on 23 September 2020 at 21:50

Also yeah, probably during the communist uprising most of the garrison was called back to Uletha. Only around 30% stood to keep control in Gharbiya.

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Comment from Liadrien on 23 September 2020 at 22:02

Alright! I'll be keeping that in mind. These Eyalets may to some extent still be the the regional centers of government. And I think I'll call them that. I like that name. (إيالت) Further questions:

  • How was the locals treated during the colonial era?
  • How was local culture treated? Was it allowed to persist or was efforts made to "Demirhanise" the region? How large were these efforts?
  • How was the local branch of Iman treated and seen?
  • Did the Demirhans build the Trans-Helion railway?
  • Did they invest in the colony in other regards?
  • Did they bring important local artifacts back to Uletha or was their local importance respected?
  • Should we discuss this somewhere else?

In the future, when more of the nature is in place, would you be interested in mapping out an old fort or similair somewhere in Gharbiya?

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