OpenGeofiction
Motorways abound in newly formed countries.
Posted by No Way on 25 March 2019 in English. Last updated on 26 March 2019.Well it appears that since new territories have been created and inhabited it appears that new motorways have also been laid out. It appears that recently granted territories have motorways mapped on them before any natural feature or even a mere surface route.
I don’t understand what the infatuation with a motorway is anyway. They are expensive to build, take up valuable real estate and they also contribute to blight and sprawl. Having said that I know that they are a necessity in a country that needs to move goods and services.
Discussion
Comment from Alessa on 25 March 2019 at 01:17
I actually understand a bit of why people are fascinated with it. Think of it this way: people love the maze-like puzzle and imagining how traffic would flow through it. It’s not much different than playing with electrical circuits or doing water games with hoses to figure out how things flow. There is also a control aspect involved: most people personally drive their vehicles or spend time in the passenger seat. They actively experience the travel through direct participation. Something like air and rail are more passive, because you are not directly controlling the vehicle. I happen to really like rail travel, for example, but it is a different feel than manning your own vehicle and moving through the maze of highways. This feeds into culture too. I never grew up with rail transport. And, when I moved to the Midwestern US over 30 years ago, the only rail I ever saw was the occasional cargo transport. Hence, I don’t know as much about rail as I do other things. Individuals are more likely to map what they’re accustomed to seeing and directly experiencing, whether that be railways, highways, or types of agriculture. Again, I like rail travel use it when I go back to mainland Europe (Malta has no rails), but I’m less likely to be as invested in placing it on the map as others may. So, ultimately I think it depends on the mapper’s style, preferences, and culture.
That said, I do agree with you that motorways are expensive, difficult to maintain, and take up space. Similarly, boulevards, railways, airports, seaports, and other forms of large-scale transportation do too. I’m of the mindset that any of these can be valuable as long as their cost (not just financial) is taken into perspective. Take airports, for example: they take up a huge amount of space, create awful amounts of air and noise pollution, and require a significant financial commitment just for security and maintenance. Yet, people still build airports in their countries. Are they bad? No. There just needs to be prudence in the number and size built. The same goes for rail: you can’t build a rail system to serve everyone. Trams can only do so much and move so many people. Seaports can only work with so much cargo. I could go on and on.
The key here is helping users understand the costs of each infrastructure type while still respecting the different value judgements and cultures.
Comment from zhenkang on 25 March 2019 at 08:24
By some coincdence, I was thinking about whats so special about people building motorways after some user keeps showing me several motorway interchanges for feedback.
Nevertheless I have to admit that I also made such mistakes when I started in OGF long ago; I remember my first message which comments on a long highway I created which stretches diagonally across Commonia (my intentions at the time is to connect several towns in CO). Some users, after seeing some disconnected towns and cities, will also be likely to link them up with motorways (which can also explain why there can be motorway bridges across the West Commonian Islands sometimes?) Still, other road levels (I realised later) such as primary or secondary, are able to link them up nonetheless.
There should be more awareness against motorways or trunk roads and offer alternatives such as primary roads, rails and stuff like that.
Comment from LemonKing on 25 March 2019 at 09:24
I understand the fun with motorways. For people who love constructing complicated interjections, I takes a lot of patience to wait until everything else is mapped first.
This made me think: While some users are obviously lazy mapping natural features, others seem especially fond of it. Some new users might prefer a pre-mapped natural landscape so they could start directly mapping man-made features.
It wouldn’t hurt to call out for volunteers to do some groundwork with rivers and mountains in your territory. It might lead to win-win-deals, where both parts can do more of what they most like. Some kind of mechanism for organizing this kind of collaboration might be good to have. Maybe even some of the green territories could be pre-mapped as an experiment, at least for coastline details.
Comment from Ramasham on 25 March 2019 at 20:54
LemonKing: +1. I think you’ve made a great point, new mappers will naturally gravitate toward features they find familiar, features that are relatively simple to map given they’re fighting to master the editing tools, and, above all, features they find FUN to map.
So what’s the harm in letting folks go to work on motorways while climbing the steep JOSM learning curve? An experienced mapper would start a new country by zooming way out and spending weeks or months to lay out its ‘skeleton’. That’s slow and it’s difficult: creating all those diverse natural features takes a much higher skill level than a does a good-looking motorway.
But an experienced mapper has already made his share of beautiful maps and doesn’t mind the slog. When I was new, though, I remember uploading a half dozen changesets a night just to gaze with love at the single city block or interchange I’d just uploaded.
Our new mappers have been at work on their countries for less than a month; I say give em a grace period to have fun and learn before sending out critiques that aren’t asked for.
Also:
I’m one of those who really enjoys mapping natural features and countryside. I like that idea of a collaboration where mapper A lays out the natural features, after which B tackles the built ones. Invitations considered :)
Coincidentally, I am finishing a forum post that is motivated by the bad reputation motorwaus have built up here. It will provide data on motorway lengths per ‘000 people and per km^2 for real world countries of varying sizes, geographic constraints and income levels. My aim is to show that having a certain density of motorways is simply an element of verisimilitude, and doesn’t automatically signify bad mapping. I’m afraid that our new mappers might be concluding that they are terrible at maps just because they draw a freeway :)
Comment from Luciano on 25 March 2019 at 21:45
When I first came to OGF, I filled my original territory, Ardisphere, with a network of motorways. I made all the mistakes newbies make. I flooded Archanta many times - it was why I first move to JOSM, because I wanted to learn how to fix my own coastline mistakes.
I think patience is fine and important for new users: one reason why I thought maybe the “beginner” territories I made were a good idea. So these points are valid. And even in its second (and sometimes third) version, Ardisphere rarely makes me feel proud of my work, now. We are all constantly learning, trying new things, experimenting.
So when I say “people should map their natural features first” or “I recommend no motorways for the first year in a territory”, bear in mind I speak from my own learning curve. I’ve been on OGF for 5 years now. And I still consider that I’ve not found the right balance.
Comment from Portopolis on 28 March 2019 at 19:39
Hey I messaged you a long time ago about Sadikady. I’m currently using that name in FSA, and I wanted to ask if you or I could change it as I originally named i that in Commonia before it was moved. I don’t want to edit in someone else’s country, and I don’t mind the same name being in two countries but as their is history behind it tied to the FSA, I would like to change it. I’ll also send you a PM when I have time.