Comment from The_Cute_Chick on 23 July 2018 at 11:32
The motorway 45 is not necessary and is redundant. This motorway parallels motorway 101 for most (if not all) of the way and motorway 101 already (indirectly) serves Katsnelson.
Moreover, Why does the motorway head out to sea for no reason and make a sharp turn back to land?
Where is the Peakton Cliff you are referring to? Could you provide a link to the location of the cliff?
Comment from zhenkang on 23 July 2018 at 14:08
I alao agree the redundancy of 45. You are actually free to modify highway 101 so that it connects to your city to Katsnelon (by the way also give some respect to Yuanls old work).
We should reduce the usage of motorways as far as possible. Use primary roads instead od expensive motorways. Why would the poor Commonian govt pay for such motorways?
And where is Chico?
On a sidenote, I advise those cleaning up Commonia (watching you, TCC) to go to West Commonia instead where cleaning up is much better and more appreciated. Commonia will no longer function as a real realistic nation in the future, so dont bother cleaning up. For iiEarth, I advise moving your mapping to somewhere safe from Commonia, like Gobrassanya or even to your own future territory.
Comment from FancyFoxy on 23 July 2018 at 14:32
Yeah, I noticed the cliff too. It made no sense in the context of my city, and it’s especially silly where the cliff crosses a river where it meets with the ocean.
Comment from The_Cute_Chick on 23 July 2018 at 15:13
I have started editing in Commonia (and Rhododactylia) and do not wish to start mapping elsewhere. Personally, I believe that one day Commonia can return back to decency [with time, effort and perseverance and ‘turn over a new leaf’.
And for your information, Chico is a city in excess of primary roads and (recently) railways north-northeast of Los Oros.
Comment from yoyo21 on 23 July 2018 at 16:50
If we can go region by region, Commonia is possible to clean up, but it would require a ton of users and lots of work. Chico does have a ton of railways, and has no secondary or tertiary roads.
Comment from varnel_maiser on 23 July 2018 at 16:55
The thing about cliffs is funny because there’s another one on top of the coastline, here.
Comment from The_Cute_Chick on 23 July 2018 at 17:32
A cliff of water could be a waterfall. :P
I know of a region in Commonia that requires little to no cleaning-up since there is little mapping there.
Comment from FancyFoxy on 23 July 2018 at 20:46
I just noticed, Peakton Cliff just follows the entire country boundary of Commonia, so it not only travels the coastline, but also goes along its southern border. The worst part is that it also goes on the islands of Commonia, so you have multiple cliffs all part of “Peakton Cliff”. Should we remove it?
Comment from Yuanls on 23 July 2018 at 20:57
I’m not the only person responsible for the mapping in the vicinity of Katsnelson; the other person you probably want to look for is Subway. I ‘finished’ Katsnelson and tidied the place up some years back. I frequent the area regularly to check for vandalism or unrealistic mapping. I can only say that I agree with the comments above: Highway 45 is entirely unnecessary. I too question the choice of making the road turn out to sea, and then head back to land. Even stranger is why on the southern ~40km stretch of Highway 45 is mapped as bridge=yes, even though it runs on land for all its course. You should also do something about the fact that the Oros River flows from the sea into the sea, whilst diverging into 2 branches that later merge. I tend to leave mapping south of the ‘canal’ alone, so I’ll let you resolve these issues yourself.
Comment from thilo on 23 July 2018 at 21:11
It looks like the “cliff” started out as the “land_area=administrative” relation for Commonia, and then seriously degraded over time. Finally some rather clueless mapper added the “natural=cliff” tag, which doesn’t make any sense at all. At least that tag should be removed, and the “land_area” relation in its current state isn’t of much use also:
Would it be worth the effort of repairing and then maintaining it? I don’t know.
Comment from Subway on 23 July 2018 at 22:40
Agree that Highway 45 looks unnecessary. As Yuanls alluded to, I was the original mapper on Katsnelson but kind of abandoned it when I got my own territory, so you are all free to do as you wish with it. Also its not the best in terms of originality and effort since there’s like a ton of real-life names and people referenced throughout the city. And after just a quick glance, a highway between Chico and Katsnelson might not have to be along the route of Hwy 45/101, it could travel a more direct and inland route.
Comment from zhenkang on 23 July 2018 at 23:07
As far as I can deduce thus far, the admins arent really going to do a massive cleanup on Commonia even in the far future. The admins has more pressing problems than cleaning up a beginners’ playground, so I will say it is quite a waste of time, unless you can convince the admins to savage the nation.
If the relation is fixed, does it help Commonia for a bit? Would any user come and destroy it? I dont know.
I have a blueprint for the cleanup of Commonia, but it still depends on the admins’ approval and decision to salvage the nation. But I agree if you like to cleanup, do for the north hald. I have another blueprint which involves the destroyal of all Commonia and replacing with an archipelago. (With a mix of big and small islands NE od Archanta)
Comment from zhenkang on 23 July 2018 at 23:08
*north part I mean
Comment from wangi on 24 July 2018 at 01:05
Hi zhenkang, Commonia isn’t a problem for new users, it’s an ideal first outing. It’s a problem for established users.
Comment from zhenkang on 24 July 2018 at 01:10
Yep, just realised something wrong with my perspective.
Comment from The_Cute_Chick on 24 July 2018 at 08:48
I actually prefer it if the admins did not interfere with the clean-up of Commonia. Why does the clean-up of Commonia have to involve the admins? If they have “more pressing problems”, we could help Commonia. We do not have to give more responsibility and work to the admins if we can do something about this.
Comment from zhenkang on 24 July 2018 at 09:20
@TCC But still everything needs admin approval. Everthing in OGF is still Thilo’s decision and ideas, but if you can convince the admins that you can take charge for Commonia instead, then you go.
Comment from iiEarth on 24 July 2018 at 10:02
Hey guys, thanks for all of the info! I cannot answer to your replies quick as I am currently travelling in India. Yes, 45 is a bridge and I am going to change that now, and that many other people have realized the ‘Peakton Cliff’.
@TCC I made 45 towards sea so that it could intersect with 101. If you want, I can make it continue towards the sea where it will end.
Comment from The_Cute_Chick on 24 July 2018 at 10:46
I do not want to “take charge” of Commonia. I just want to improve Commonia. I do not understand why improving a blue country needs “admin approval”.
Comment from yoyo21 on 24 July 2018 at 12:15
Also @zhenkang what is your blueprint anyway?
Comment from wangi on 24 July 2018 at 12:24
I don’t see what’s wrong with the status quo… Islands of good mapping, in amongst more chaotic experiments. New folk need to have somewhere as a scratch pad.
Comment from zhenkang on 24 July 2018 at 14:13
@yoyo21 I will post a user diary on that, once I have the time to write. There are two blueprints: One concerning the cleanup, the other one considering disintegrating the Commonian mainland into a set of Archipelagos, so any coastline problems will not affect Commonia.
There are four main options that can be considered for Commonia:
We do a massive cleanup. Get a voluntary team, turn parts of Commonia purple and do the cleanup in a systematic way (I will elaborate on this in the upcoming user diary). Create a new coherent history and culture.
Maintain the status quo. However, Commonia will become a ‘lost country’, functions only as a sandbox, no history or culture considered. Also involves separating Commonia from Archanta to prevent flooding into Archanta. West Commonia will then replace Commonia. (if there are people tying their history to the country)
Destroy all of Commonia, turn it into an archipelago with islands of varying sizes. Let new users understand coastlines. West Commonia will then replace Commonia.
Turn it fully collaborative like AR120, so it becomes a federation managed similarly to AR120. Create a new coherent history and culture.
Comment from The_Cute_Chick on 24 July 2018 at 14:55
My view on Commonia aligns with the second option the most.
Comment from Yuanls on 24 July 2018 at 15:50
Can we stop discussing long term solutions to the Commonia problem? They won’t go anywhere, it’s all up to the admins.
Comment from isleño on 24 July 2018 at 18:14
As has already been pointed out on many occasions, we don’t recommend that anyone invest time and effort trying to “fix” Commonia right now.
First, these fixes don’t address the deeper, underlying problems inherent in the foundations of the mapping; they merely result in a somewhat less badly mapped version of a badly mapped area. And second, the pace of the fixes can never keep up with the pace of newbies messing up the fixes, so these less badly mapped areas tend to return to a more badly mapped state over time. So fixing little bits of mapping here and there is not going to result in a coherent, cohesive, convincing country.
Instead, the plan is to open smaller blue countries located elsewhere; then to remove Commonia from the list of blue countries; then to request community opinion about what to do with the area; and then to develop a new collaborative plan based on that input, which will likely involve deleting much of the mapping and significantly reimagining the remainder. So until then, I don’t think efforts to “fix” Commonia are helpful — nor are efforts to launch premature discussions about what should happen there long term.
Comment from zhenkang on 24 July 2018 at 22:38
@isleno that is what I also feel.
@Yuanls I also agree it is still up to the admins. Which is why I have never posted beyond those options yet.
@TCC As for West Commonia replacing Commonia, I mean the history and whatever of Commonia will be taken up by West Commonia, has its name changed to Commonia, so there is no West Commonia. A lost country, well, look up Solaria and Mazan for examples. Technically they have been created by soemone else before, but they were either vapourised or voluntarily left OGF, and thus their countries are rendered canon.
Separating Commonia from Archanta means creating a sea on the southern border. So that any coastlines problems in Commonia wouldnt affect Archanta.
Comment from The_Cute_Chick on 25 July 2018 at 05:58
I know what a ‘lost’ country is. However, this term has never been used for a blue country (as far as I know). My question is “What does it mean for Commonia if Commonia becomes a ‘lost’ country?” and not “What is a ‘lost’ country?”. Does it matter if Commonia is a ‘lost’ country or not? This term makes sense for former owned territories but is pointless for a country that already has no owner. This is why I asked the question.
Comment from iiEarth on 25 July 2018 at 06:51
I’ve been seeing the comments in this diary entry ever since I made it. I’m starting to feel that this is getting off-topic and people are starting to argue. Please do not talk about the future of Commonia. It is getting the admins pulled in and we do not want that.
@TCC I think so if Commonia becomes a ‘lost’ country it will probably shut down, all the users will leave to another/new blue countries or get there own territories, and probably they will restore Commonia into an empty country. Maybe then it will be broken into smaller countries. This is my version of what if Commonia turns into a ‘lost’ country.
Comment from iiEarth on 25 July 2018 at 06:59
I just asked two questions, and if you see at the Users’ Diaries section you will see that this Diary has 28 comments. As you can see, the first part (From TCC to Subway) the talk was about the topics, Highway 45 and the Peakton Cliff. After that, it was mainly dominated about blueprints and project by TCC and Zhenkhang. I agree with Yuanis that we should not talk about plans right now. Somebody might work for a really long time and it might get rejected. Also, the admins should ask us if they want any ideas, not vice versa. Hopefully this will stop.
Comment from Yuanls on 25 July 2018 at 09:26
Coming back onto topic, I request you to remove (at least the northern section) of highway 45, as it is unneeded for the already stated reasons.
Comment from yoyo21 on 25 July 2018 at 21:07
I think the whole thing should just be removed, it serves almost no purpose that 101 doesn’t already serve.
By the way, the whole road is currently tagged as a bridge.